9 Sep 2007
“Bacterial L-forms are among the most unusual creatures in nature. Once one has seen their strange habits and life style, one starts to work on L-forms with great enthusiasm because their existence in vivo and in vitro gives rise to more questions in classical microbiology, immunology and infectious diseases.
Researching L-forms is like trying to catch a fish that appears on the surface and quickly dives back into the sea. It is almost impossible to catch it with bare hands. There are better chances of catching the fish by hook and line but chance is always powerful when efforts are joined and fishing nets are put into use.”
And just who is able to describe the process of culturing L-form bacteria so eloquently? She’s an Associate Professor at the Department of Pathogenic Bacteria Institute of Microbiology at the Bulgarian Academy of Sciences, who’s worked with L-form bacteria for the last 15 years. Meet Nadya Markova.

I graduated as a medical doctor, but my interest in microbiology led me to the Bulgarian Academy of Sciences (where I defended my PhD thesis in the field of medical microbiology). Researchers already working there at the time had great experience in L-form research and had made many interesting observations about the bacteria, all of which sparked my interest. They were my teachers, who inspired me to continue their research in the same field.
I started thinking about how L-form bacteria change form in the beginning of the 90s, and my interest in them has risen ever since. Unfortunately, our research team is comprised of only 5 people. One of them must be mentioned, my teacher Professor Lilia Michailova. She is an excellent electron microscopist and, without her, our achievements wouldn’t have been possible. I’m really glad that she is still active and that we continue to work together.
We have conducted various experiments with L-forms of Staphylococcus aureus, Streptococcus pyogenes, and Listeria monocytogenes. At present we are very interested in, and work exclusively with, L-forms of Mycobacterium tuberculosis.
We grow L-forms on specific media (semisolid and liquid) with supplements specifically designed to facilitate L-form growth. These media are well known in the literature and are widely used by other researchers. We observe L-forms using electron and light microscopes. However, in order to correctly observe L-form bacteria using a light microscope, a person must have a great deal of experience with L-forms.
We focus on bacterial host cell interactions, especially interactions of bacterial L-forms with peritoneal and alveolar macrophages in experimental infections.
There are two types of experimental infections. The first involves dividing experimental animals in two groups. We inject the first group of animals with normal pathogenic bacteria and the other group with L-form strains. We grow the L-forms under specific laboratory conditions prior to the experiment.
During the experimental infection, we collect samples of white blood cells called alveolar macrophages in the animal’s lungs, and white blood cells called peritoneal macrophages from the abdomen of each animal. Macrophages are cells of the immune system that are supposed to be the first to react to infections. Their job is to engulf and digest the pathogens and then, in turn, create an antigen, a special type of molecule that provokes a response from the host’s immune system.
Phagocytosis is the process of engulfing, digesting, and transforming pathogenic bacteria into antigens. In the case of normal pathogenic bacteria, macrophages easily recognize the bacteria and the process of phagocytosis goes smoothly. But when macrophages are faced with L-form bacteria, they have difficulty recognizing the bacteria as pathogenic, and the normal process of phagocytosis is impeded.
L-forms stay longer on the surface of macrophages without being engulfed. Even when they are engulfed, L-forms are not properly digested and they continue to persist inside the macrophage. In short, the whole process of destroying bacteria is distorted.
It is important to understand that these phenomena happen in vivo, or inside animals that are alive.
The hardest part is not so much cultivating the bacteria, but rather developing the skills to recognize which bacteria are L-forms. The importance of a teacher passing down this knowledge to a student is critical – this cannot be learned from books or photographs; one has to see it in person and have it explained.
In my opinion, long-lasting persistent irritation of the immune system by these unusual bacterial L-forms is the cause of most chronic diseases. I wouldn’t speculate and mention specific diseases, but I support the opinion that L-forms could be the reason for latent, chronic, and relapsing infections, as well as diseases of unknown infectious-allergic or autoimmune origin.
L-form bacteria are so unusual, so it is hard for me to decide what I feel is most fascinating about them. I’m always amazed at how they can drastically change their life style. By life style, I mean that each microbe has its own shape and size, or its own morphology. Microbes are mainly shaped like rods or, shaped like spheres (called cocci). Usually microbes multiply by simple division, that is, each microbe divides into two new microbes which are morphologically identical.
But when it comes to L-forms, the process of division does not occur in the same, usual way. L-forms stop producing cell walls and start creating morphological units such as large bodies, elementary bodies, filaments, filterable granules, empty bodies, vesicles and membranous structures. When these diverse populations of L-forms get into an organism, they do not behave like other populations of normal pathogenic bacteria. They no longer interact in a normal manner with cells from the immune system.
Perhaps another one of the most important aspects about the pathology of L-form characteristics is that they are exceptionally resistant to many factors, including most antibacterial drugs and bactericidal host defense mechanisms. Simply speaking, the bactericidal host defense mechanism is the ability of macrophages to engulf and destroy pathogens and in the process create an antigen. It is the only way that the organism can produce a normal immune response to the bacterial threat.
We are fascinated by, and focused on, observing and documenting the atypical behavior of L-forms in vivo, or in the body rather than the lab.
One of the main misconceptions about L-form bacteria is that they are considered to be an artificially provoked phenomenon capable of existing only in laboratory conditions. But a number of studies have shown that L-forms can exist in vivo (inside the body) as well.
It’s hard to get our papers published, because few people actually understand and want to accept our investigations concerning bacterial L-form transformations. Unfortunately, this continues to this very day.
I would tell him what an extremely important role L-form bacteria play in latent, chronic, and relapsing infections, as well as in diseases of unknown infectious-allergic or autoimmune origin. I would also tell him, if possible, to support and sponsor the researchers working with L-form bacteria, as they are mostly ignored.
Unfortunately, physicians in Bulgaria, and probably in other countries, don’t pay enough attention to the role of L-form bacteria in chronic diseases, and accept them with difficulty.
The founder of L-form research in Bulgaria – Professor Toshkov – had great contacts and collaboration projects with L-form research teams in France, Germany and Russia, as well as contacts with famous scientists like Lida Mattman. Nowadays, there are relatively few people with whom I am in contact. However, no matter how hard it is, I’m doing my best to get in touch with other scientists working with modern molecular biological tools. I want to spark their enthusiasm so that they too will work in L-form research, which will allow this area of medicine to achieve real success.
When reviewers don’t accept our papers, one of the main reasons they give is that our results are not supported with standard molecular-microbiological methods, which is why they refuse to accept them as real. It is very hard to explain to them that those standard methods for classical bacteria are not valid for L-form cells, and that new methods and approaches need to be developed in order to identify them using DNA- based technology.
I think that it is very important to establish better cooperation and contacts between practicing physicians and those microbiologists working in laboratories that specialize on the isolation, cultivation, and identification of L-forms.
Yes, I have heard about the Marshall Protocol and I am aware of the basic principles of the treatment. I feel that the approach of the Marshall Protocol, which first acts on the immune system and then continues the healing process with an extended etiotropic low-dose antibiotic therapy, is correct. In my opinion, at this stage of our understanding of L-form behavior, minocycline is one of the best antibiotics that is best able to suppress the activity of L-forms. However, I feel that all researchers working in the field of L-forms should be concentrating all their energy on developing new drugs that can specifically target and block the process of L-form conversion.
In order to create an effective medicine we have to profoundly investigate and fully understand the mechanism of L-form conversion (how normal pathogenic bacteria turn into L-forms) on the molecular and genetic level. Then we will be able to determine the exact level at which we can act in order to stop the process.
Michailova L., Kussovski V., Radoucheva T., Jordanova M. & Markova N. (2007). Persistence of Staphylococcus aureus L-form during experimental lung infection in rats. FEMS Microbiol Lett 268: 88-97.
Michailova L., Kussovski, V., Radoucheva, T., Jordanova M., Berger W., Rinder H. & Markova N. (2005). Morphological variability and cell wall deficiency in Mycobacterium tuberculosis ‘heteroresistant’ stains. The Int. J. Tuberc. Lung. Dis. 9: 907-914.
Michailova, L, Markova N., Radoucheva T., Stoitsova S., Kussovski V. & Jordanova M.. (2000). Atypical behaviour and survival of Steptococcus pyogenes L-forms during intraperitoneal infection in rats. FEMS Immunology and Medical Microbiology 28: 55-65.
Michailova, L., S. Stoitsova, N.Markova, T. Radoucheva, V.Kussovski, M. Jordanova, & Dimova. I. (2000). Interaction of alveolar macrophages with Staphylococcus aureus and induction of microbial L-forms during infection in rats. Int. J. Med. Microbiol. 290:259-267.
Markova N., Mihailova L., Vesselinova A. , Kussovski V., Radoucheva T., Nikolova S., & Paskaleva I. (1997). Cell wall deficient forms (L-forms) of Listeria monocytogenes in experimentally infected rats. Zbl. Bakt. 286: 46-55.
Mihailova, L., Markova, T., Radoucheva, D., Veljanov, S., & Radoevska. (1993). Cell interaction of Listeria monocytogenes L-forms and peritoneal exudative cells in rats. Can. J. Microbiol. 39: 1014-1021.
20 Responses for "Interview with Nadya Markova: L-form Expert"
I can’t wait for the day that medicine sees the big picture. It is exciting to know the good news…chronic illness is on the brink of becoming eradicated! As a health professional this is great news for mankind and we should celebrate!
Thanks again Amy for your hardwork!
If you are skeptical and reading this article. I was once in your shoes…Keep reading the science of the Marshall Protocol and the website here and all the pieces will fit together. It took me two years to fully grasp what I was reading.
Jeannine
Hi,
My 23 yr old daughter is battling Lyme Late Chronic. SHe went undiagnosed for over a decade with many many auto immune illnesses to follow. SHe is currently bedridden for over 18 months after all the antibiotics both oral ,IV and shots in the tummy. Life as she knew it is gone and burried. No friends, no life no strength. SHe is following the Marshall Protocol but change is painfully slow. I am looking for anyone to talk to and even more importantly someone to talk to her (Ally) to encourage her that her life will begin again. Our Dr. who is great is a Naturopah and he is very empathetic. Ally is a very private person, but I believe she would benefit immensly from hearing someone who has walked in her shoes.
Anyone out there man or woman please respond.
Thank You
Lori Schott
Hi Lori,
Well, I certainly can imagine what your daughter is dealing with. I was desperately sick for 3 years before starting the MP and reached a point of deterioration where I was sure my life would end and I was constantly contemplating suicide because of the pain. The first two years on the MP were very difficult for me, but then the improvements really started to kick in. So she needs to stick with it and I hope she can begin to embrace the fact that although difficult for a long time, the MP will allow her to live a normal life again. I know it seems difficult to believe that reality during the hard times, but here I am 3 1/2 years into the MP and I can tell her with confidence that she will get better. I was also 23 when I started the MP.
However that’s just my input. I highly recommend that you or Ally post on the following website which was recently created in order to provide support to people on the MP.
“MP Lifestyles” http://mp-lifestyles.org/recent.html?id=6
Hopefully on the “Lifestyles” site she can speak with others who are surely going through an experience similar to hers and also speak with people ahead of her on the treatment who have killed more bacteria and can encourage her as she continues the MP.
Best,
Amy
Yes we in a team haqve started working on isolationand characterizqation of some L-forms..wqe would like to study the possiblity of their exploitaion for some purpose.
Hi Prof Khan,
It’s always great to hear about new teams studying L-form bacteria. What aspects of the pathogens are you planning to investigate?
Best,
Amy
Professor Markova says:
“The hardest part is not so much cultivating the bacteria, but rather developing the skills to recognize which bacteria are L-forms. The importance of a teacher passing down this knowledge to a student is critical – this cannot be learned from books or photographs; one has to see it in person and have it explained.”
How can one then guard against a scientific bias or error if this is so? It reminds me of Blodlot’s N-rays in 1903 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N_ray). There must be a better way. Has anyone used gene amplification and gene sequencing methods to verify that these are L-forms of common bacteria?
Hi John,
I suppose it’s true that learning to how to identify L-form bacteria based on the instruction of a mentor could introduce some bias into the detection process. But up until this point, I feel such learning has been a helpful way to pass on valuable knowledge.
L-form bacteria have received such little attention from the mainstream that techniques, rules and regulations to identify them absolutely definitively have simply not yet been created.
Also, I’m not sure every scientist working with L-form bacteria would agree with Markova. Several people I’ve spoken with who culture the L-form learned how to do so using Mattman’s textbook on L-form bacteria and were greatly guided by Domingue’s papers. So I think that learning from books and papers is possible in some cases.
Perhaps what Markova meant to say is that having a knowledgeable instructor has simply made it much easier for her to identify L-forms. I know she holds her teacher in very high regard and probably wanted to compliment her publicly. When it comes to any subject matter a good teacher can bring the subject to life in a new dimension.
Hopefully scientists in the future will be able to rely on molecular techniques to sequence L-form bacteria rather than having to eye them in the lab. At that point concerns of bias will no longer be an issue.
Best,
Amy
Hello Amy,
I just briefly browsed your page and some of your articles. I too am/was a fan of Dr. Marshall’s protocol and the theory of stealthy pathogens. Unfortunately, he did not take the time to identify the mysterious sarcoid pathogen. Contrary to to what is assumed, these bacteria can be easily seen with appropriate techniques. Therefore, the effectiveness of any protocol targeting them can be determined without bias. These bacteria have been succesfully identified by Canadian researchers via 16s ribosomal dna sequencing.
I enjoyed reading your interview with Dr. Markova. I hope to read more of your articles as time permits.
Sincerely,
Greg A. Dykhuizen MD
Hi Dr. Dykhuizen,
We don’t believe it’s one pathogen causing one disease. We believe chronic disease is caused by a variety of different species of bacteria in different forms including biofilm and l-form. As you know, the Human Microbiome Project has shown that human cells are outnumbered by bacterials cells by 10 to 1.
Sarcoidosis manifests in a lot of different organs and has a variety of different symptoms. Different pathogens could be responsible for causing various symptoms of disease.
We believe that many of these bacteria have yet to be fully characterized and identified. Some microbiome researchers say that we have only characterized 1% of the bacteria in the human body. So we definitely don’t want to say that we’ve found all the bacteria complicit in disease until all have been fully characterized.
But, I’m sure the pathogen identified by the Canadian team plays a role. Could you tell me what pathogen it is and refer me to some of the team’s papers?
I appreciate your feedback. I hope you continue to read the articles on the site.
Best,
Amy
Hello Amy. Concerning the identity of the pathogen, one MP member has already addressed the issue. (windy city, leather hat). These are the only l forms that i’m seeing, as if they weren’t enough. Thanks for your reply.
Greg
Can anyone enlighten me on the previous comment “windy city, leather hat”. I’m not sure what that means and I would like more info about the Canadian pathogens.
Thanks – Mark
Hi Greg,
I’m with Mark. I don’t know who you are talking about when you refer to “windy city, leather hat” Is that the name of a member on the MP? Even if such a person has already addressed the issue perhaps you could direct us to where the discussion took place or perhaps you could explain the highlights of their comments yourself?
Thanks,
Amy
Hello Amy,
Sorry about the delay, My modem became mysteriously obsolete leaving me temporarily incommunicato. I was refering to a particular Mashall Protocol member in my previous response. He mentioned seeing what he believed were mycoplasma while looking at fingerstick blood with darkfield microscopy. I am seeing the same in all fingerstick samples that I have observed. Electron micrographs of these organisms are available. McLaughlin, Vali, Lau, et.al. “Are There Naturally Occurring Pleomorphic Bacteria in the Blood of Healthy Humans?” Journal of Clinical Microbiology, Dec. 2002, p. 4771-4775. Also,” Etiologic studies on late-term swine abortions” Nielsen, Armstrong, Turek, Nielsen. J. Vet. Diagn. Invest. 1:160-164 (1989).
These organisms are profuse in most of the samples that I have seen. Many erythrocytes appear to be packed with these. That can’t be good, can it?
More info available,
Hi Greg,
Of course that’s not good! I’m also familiar with the study you are referencing. I agree that the study and your own experiments are surely detecting bacteria in the blood, but there is no evidence to suggest that you are only observing only one pathogen. Each sample you view likely contains a variety of different pathogens, each of which contribute to the exacerbation of certain symptoms.
It would be great if standard laboratories knew how to correctly identify these bacteria in the blood samples of patients. However at the moment they are not trained in the techniques and it is impractical to think Dr. Marshall could somehow test the blood of MP patients. They are located all over the world and obtaining blood samples is a delicate issue.
In any case, thanks for sharing. The fact that the study you referenced found bacteria in people considered to be “healthy” enforces Marshall’s view that everyone harbors a certain level of the Th1 pathogens. Essentially, no one is immune to these bacterial forms as they age.
Best,
Amy
Thanks for the clarification Greg – Most impressive.
Mark
Hello Amy,
You probably have heard enough from me, but I couldn’t resist. We were both right, many different bacteria, but in stealth mode, the same appearance (yeastlike discs with punctate/depressed centers). These are mitochondria, and the bacteria evolve from them just as A. Bechamp described. I have witnessed and filmed this phenomenon.
Hi Amy,
Thanks for the update It sounds like your life is so full and rich and wonderful, you truly deserve it.
Things here with Ally seem different, and it’s kind of hard to explain. She had a 6 week or so hiatus a number of months ago, then went on to Declomyacin from Minocycline. She got back on a new antibiotic called Declomyacin, it has kicked her butt most of the time, but she finally graduated from a 1/4 of a pill to 1/2 of a pill just this last week. We were expecting the worst out of doubling the AB, but she hasn’t had the dreadful experience we thought might surely happen. It hasn’t been easy by any means but it has been way worse in the past. I feel like something is changing in her and for the better for the first time ever!. My mother’s intuition says something’s up. It seems as though she has really killed off a lot of the bacteria in this last grueling horrendous year. It makes sense according to how the MP says it works. If she has greatly lowered her bacterial load, then her herx’s should get less and less right? I am hoping and praying with every fiber of my heart and soul, that things will start to go in her favor. She has lost so much of her life, Its hard to wrap my mind around her enormous losses. When she does get well, she will have to build herself a life from the bottom up. No friends, no school, no job. We are her everything.
Let me know what your thoughts might be. How did things start to change for you? I know each person goes through this differently but I am just wondering.
Thanks,
Lori Schott
Hi Lori,
It’s really good to hear from you! I think it’s fantastic that Ally is able to tolerate 1/2 of a demeclocycline pill. At that dose she is definitely killing bacteria. So if she can tolerate the die-off and still feel some improvement she is definitely getting better. I think you will find that things gradually get easier and easier for her. She is still going to herx, but “underneath” the herx she may start to feel increasingly resilient.
At least that’s what happened to me. My herx reaction was always strong, but as I killed more and more bacteria it became easier to tolerate because my original disease symptoms were going away. I gained a sense of true inner strength that I had not had for years. Gradually I realized that I could push myself and not relapse or end up in bed. Nowadays I don’t even think about pushing myself too hard. If I do I usually sleep it off. That’s quite a difference from the days where the most minimal things could put me in bed for weeks.
I know that right now Ally can’t engage much in life outside the family but I truly believe that one day she will become a happy, normal young person. At that point she will be so strong from dealing the her illness that she will probably maintain a continually positive outlook on life and enjoy each healthy day much more than the average person.
All the best to both of you,
Amy
Nadya Markova.
hi I am Luz Piedad Quebrada Of group of investigation in biomedics science of Quindio University of Colombia. I need your articles for a investigation in L – forms of Micobacterium tuberculosis but I don´t can access to. please send me. my mail is: lupi90@gmail.com
thank you very so much.
Hi Luz,
Just in case Nadya doesn’t read your post I will also send her an email with your request. I hope you investigations go well!
Best,
Amy