11 Oct 2007
Many people who are chronically ill are given antibiotics. But are these medications working in the correct manner to kill the pathogens responsible for their disease? New molecular modeling research strongly suggests that the stealth pathogens responsible for causing a wide array of chronic diseases can only be killed if carefully chosen antibiotics are taken in a very specific manner.
In what is emerging as a new understanding of chronic disease, researchers are increasingly implicating what are often referred to as the Th1 pathogens in a wide array of illnesses previously considered to be of unknown cause or “autoimmune” in nature. “It is our contention that several diseases that are usually regarded as ‘autoimmune’ or ‘idiopathic’, including rheumatoid arthritis, Crohn’s disease, ulcerative colitis, sarcoidosis and psoriasis, are caused by infection with related slow-growing bacteria,” states G.A.W. Rook in the journal Immunology Today.[1]
The Th1 pathogens are hypothesized to be an intraphagocytic, metagenomic microbiota of bacteria, meaning that they are able to persist inside the cells of the immune system as well as group into colonies called biofilms. The bacteria inside a biofilm produce a protective matrix that allows them to more effectively evade the immune system and develop resistance to antibiotics administered in a standard manner. Essentially, high-dose antibiotics fail to eliminate all the cells that form a biofilm, leaving what are referred to as persister cells behind. The persister cells are eventually able to re-create the biofilm, allowing it to thrive again. [2] There is a tremendous number of different species of these chronic pathogens.
Many of the bacteria that compose this microbiota are in what is referred to as the L-form. For over a century, scientists have realized that classical bacteria can transform into small forms that lack cell walls. These pathogens are known as L-form bacteria. Researchers have currently identified over 50 different species of bacteria capable of transforming into the L-form, and it is likely many other bacteria also have this ability. Brown et al have found evidence of L-form bacteria in the blood of more than 60% of healthy controls.[3] In fact, the diseases generated by L-form bacteria are far more common than currently realized, and are often only noticed as subtle signs of aging, such as osteoporosis, obesity, fatigue and arthritis.[4][5]
Unlike other forms of bacteria, L-form bacteria have developed the ability to remain alive and proliferate undetected inside macrophages, the very cells of the immune system that the body uses to kill invading pathogens. Once inside the macrophages, it becomes much more difficult for antibiotics to penetrate the interior of the cell and come in contact with these bacteria.
Beta-lactam antibiotics including penicillin, amoxicillin and the cephalosporins are also designed to attack the bacterial cell wall. These antibiotics are able to kill classical bacteria but are completely ineffective against L-form bacteria, which have lost their cell walls. In fact, in 1934, German scientist Emmy Klieneberger-Nobel first discovered that beta-lactam antibiotics actually promote the formation of L-form bacteria.[6][7]
However there are other classes of antibiotics, and the sequencing of the human genome has allowed scientists to figure out exactly how these types of antibiotics work at the molecular level. Every antibiotic is different at the molecular level and possesses unique qualities that allow it to effectively target different species of pathogens. Over the past few decades, biomedical researcher Trevor Marshall, PhD, has studied this data and figured out what is believed to be the safest, most effective antibiotics to use against L-form bacteria. He used this data to create a medical treatment known as the Marshall Protocol.[8]
Marshall discovered that a class of antibiotics called bacteriostatic antibiotics have the potential to weaken L-form bacteria if administered in the correct manner. Bacteriostatic, or “Protein Synthesis Inhibitors” are a class of antibiotics that work by disabling bacterial ribosomes – small, dense, structures that allow the pathogens to replicate and survive. This group of antibiotics includes the tetracyclines, such as minocycline and demeclocycline. This class of antibiotics has also been shown to interfere with the ability of bacteria to produce proteins on their surfaces called exoproteins. This makes it easier for the immune system to kill the pathogens.[9][10]
In the Journal of Postgraduate Medicine, Burke Cunha and team argue that there is an increasing number of “cases emerging of certain infectious diseases against which [bacteriostatic antibiotics] are especially effective, such as ehrlichiosis, Lyme disease, and methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA) infection. The researchers argue that another benefit of bacteriostatic antibiotics is that when taken orally, they are just as effective as when administered using intravenous therapy. According to Burke, minocycline is the antibiotic of choice because of its “superior intracellular mechanism of activity and an excellent safety profile.”[11]
One of the great benefits of minocycline when compared to other tetracyclines is that it has better lipid solubility. This means it can more easily penetrate the central nervous system and the inside of cells. Minocycline is also very effective against the bacterial species Staphylococcus which is one of the most widely implicated pathogens in chronic disease.
Meg Mangin at Autoimmunity Research Foundation states, “All bacteria must create a variety of proteins in order to survive and the Marshall Protocol is designed to make that task progressively harder.” Bacteria have one ribosome, the 70S ribosome, which is divided into two sections – the 30S ribosomal subunit and the 50S ribosomal subunit. Minocycline binds to the 30S ribosomal subunit. Under normal conditions, the 30S ribosomal subunit sends out a helix-like molecule that decodes the sequences of genetic code (RNA) necessary for a bacterium to create proteins necessary for survival. When minocycline binds the 30S ribosome it blocks and prevents this helix-like molecule from initiating the process that results in protein synthesis. One molecule of minocycline will inhibit one 30S bacterial ribosome from manufacturing proteins. [12] This low antibiotic to ribosome ratio proportionately controls the rate of bacterial death.
However, according to the Marshall Protocol guidelines, minocycline must be combined with other antibiotics in order to fully target all the different species of bacteria involved in causing chronic disease. As a result, the Protocol uses other carefully selected antibiotics in conjunction with minocycline, allowing the patient to target the entire spectrum of L-form bacteria.
According to Marshall, “Long term therapy with any single antibiotic will cause the killing of bacteria susceptible to that antibiotic, and the repopulation of the tissues with bacteria resistant to that antibiotic. So your bacterial load may well be increasing while your original symptoms improve.”
Consequently, patients on the treatment begin by taking pulsed, low-dose minocycline. However, they soon add other antibiotics into the mix, until their bacterial load is reduced enough that they are able to tolerate different combinations of three antibiotics at one time.
“[The Marshall Protocol] uses Minocycline as a base, and adds other symbiotic bacteriostatic antibiotics,” says Marshall, “specifically to make sure that no species can escape. The molecular genomic science is clear and precise. The Marshall Protocol is unique in its avoidance of the mechanisms leading to antibiotic resistance.” He has presented the modes of action of the Marshall Protocol antibiotics at several conferences. At the Chicago conference “Recovering from Chronic Disease,” he presented 3-D models of a bacterial ribosome, and showed where and how each antibiotic docks into the ribosomal RNA in order to prevent protein synthesis, and how the Marshall Protocol antibiotics do this synergistically, without the possibility of interaction.
Note: The antibiotics used by the Marshall Protocol must be very carefully managed so as not to provoke immunopathology that is too strong for the patient to handle. Consequently, I will not reveal the names of the other antibiotics used by the treatment, as I do not want patients to take them without first working closely with a doctor. Both doctor and patient should study and follow the protocol guidelines carefully in order to implement it safely. The Phase One Guidelines describe how to start the treatment correctly.
One of the antibiotics used in conjunction with minocycline is an azolide antibiotic that targets the other subunit of the 70S ribosome – the 50S ribosomal subunit. When this antibiotic binds this section of the ribosome it blocks bacterial proteins from being assembled and exiting through a pore in the bottom of the ribosome. Several other antibiotics are also able to block the 50S ribosome, but the azolide antibiotic used by the Marshall Protocol is unique in that it also forms a bond with a region of bacterial genetic material called 23S RNA – further preventing protein synthesis. This azolide also has superior tissue penetration than other antibiotics in its class, meaning that the drug can persist inside the tissues for weeks. As a result, this antibiotic is not taken as often as the others. In later phases of the treatment this antibiotic is combined with another antibiotic that blocks different regions of the 50S ribosomal subunit, further preventing proteins from being assembled.[13]
Two researchers at the Max Planck Institute in Germany have put together a website that brings together the research of several different scientists who have used molecular modeling software to reveal how minocycline and azolide antibiotics can block the ability of bacteria to synthesize proteins.
Another antibiotic used by the Marshall Protocol works by interfering with the ability of bacteria to create and replicate their DNA. This antibiotic inhibits dihydropteroate synthase, an enzyme that allows bacteria to use folic acid. Since folic acid is an essential precursor in the synthesis of several of the base pairs needed to create DNA, inhibition of the enzyme will stop the pathogen from creating the genetic material it needs to survive.
Because each of the three classes of bacteriostatic antibiotics used by the Marshall Protocol affect different ribosomal subunits and target different mechanisms of protein synthesis, a bacterial species would have to develop three different mutations in order to survive in their presence. Consequently, Marshall argues that when the Marshall Protocol antibiotics are taken in the correct manner, “Statistically, the chance that bacteria will evolve that cannot be killed by the MP is so close to zero it is inconsequential.”
Several variables affect how a patient will respond to the antibiotics used by the Marshall Protocol. Marshall argues that these factors include:
1. Patient’s prior exposure to the antibiotics
2. Strength (or weakness) of the patient’s own immune system
3. Species of bacteria present
4. Concomitant health problems – e.g. kidney failure
5. Concomitant infections – e.g. fungal, viral
6. Medications being taken by the patient
One antibiotic that the Marshall Protocol does not use is doxycycline. Doxycycline is not nearly as wide-spectrum an antibiotic as minocycline and does not kill as many L-form bacterial species. It also has effects on the brain that can stimulate feelings of euphoria. Marshall argues “These are both dangerous characteristics because they can make people prematurely think they have ‘conquered’ their infection.”[14]
The ribosome blockades initiated by the Marshall Protocol antibiotics greatly weaken L-form bacteria but are unable to actually kill the pathogens. Consequently, patients on the treatment take a medication called Benicar that activates the innate immune system. Molecular modeling has revealed that Benicar binds and activates the Vitamin D Receptor – a fundamental receptor of the body that controls the activity of the innate immune system.
“To us, Benicar is not a “medication.” It is a method of turning-on your body’s VDR (Vitamin D Receptor). This is a key part of the immune system, and transcribes over 1000 genes which affect body processes from calcium homeostasis to cancer metastasis,” states Marshall.
Once on Benicar, the patient’s own immune system has the strength to kill bacteria that have already been greatly weakened by antibiotic therapy. Benicar makes such a difference in activating the immune system that some patients find that once on the medication, they begin to kill bacteria before they have even started the antibiotics. In order for the immune system to function correctly at all times of day, Benicar must be taken every 6-8 hours.[15]
Marshall says that this use of Benicar along with the MP’s unique antibiotic regime “significantly tilts the advantage in favor of the immune system which is actually the most effective ‘antibiotic’.
But Benicar also binds other receptors involved in the immune system response. Recently, Marshall has elucidated additional modes of action of Benicar on the nuclear receptors that control the immune system.[16]
By definition Benicar is an Angiotensin II Receptor Blocking (ARB) drug. When Benicar binds and blocks the Angiotensin Receptor, it decreases levels of Nuclear Factor Kappa B, a protein that stimulates the release of inflammatory cytokines – proteins that generate pain and fatigue. These cytokines include interferon gamma and TNF-alpha. The drop in cytokines results in less inflammation and oxidative stress. As inflammation drops, the antibiotics can also perfuse the tissues more effectively.[17]
The drop in inflammation stimulated by Benicar makes some patients feel better, allowing them to more easily tolerate the increase in symptoms generated by bacterial die-off. In fact, if a patient feels that their immunopathology is too strong, they can take extra Benicar in order to help palliate the inflammatory response.
Benicar was carefully chosen over other ARBs because according to molecular modeling data, it binds the above receptors and the Vitamin D Receptor in a manner that most effectively activates the immune system response. Other ARBs also bind the same receptors as Benicar but fail to activate them at the correct level.[18]
Although Benicar is a mild antihypertensive agent, even patients who have very low starting blood pressure (80/50) have tolerated it well. The maximum hypertensive effect usually occurs in the 20-40 mg range. Taking higher doses has little, if any, additional effect on blood pressure.
Therefore, taking Benicar more often will not continue to lower blood pressure or deplete sodium more than the usual 40 mg dose. Patients must be sure to get plain Benicar without hydochlorothiazide added (HCT). Adequate sodium and water intake is advised. As noted in The Townsend Letter for Doctors and Patients: “Benicar was well tolerated in safety evaluations (1). Examples of some of the documented protective effects of ARBs include the ability to:
1. prevent migraines[19]
2. inhibit liver fibrosis and aid liver healing[20]
3. protect the kidneys in diabetic nephropathy[21]
4. reduce insulin resistance[22]
5. protect the heart from damage from inflammation in myocarditis[23]
6. protect the mitochondria from age-associated damage from oxidation[24]
Meg Mangin at Autoimmunity Research Foundation states, “The combination of [Benicar] to engage the immune system with the safe, wide-spectrum, symbiotic antibiotics used during the later stages of the Marshall Protocol seem to effectively eliminate all strains of antibiotic-resistant bacteria.”
As noted in the Phase 1 Marshall Protocol guidelines, Benicar is a critical component of the Marshall Protocol. Without it, the immune system is unable to fully utilize antibiotics to kill L-form bacteria. This is evident in patients taking MP antibiotics who do not begin killing bacteria until they take Benicar.[25]
Standard methods that use high dose, constant levels of antibiotics are unable to effectively eliminate L-form and biofilm bacteria. The reason lies with the fact that aside from their ability to block bacterial ribosomes, bacteriostatic antibiotics also have effects on the immune system. Unfortunately, some of these effects are immunosuppressive. For instance, the tetracycline antibiotics have been widely recognized as being able to inhibit various functions of phagocytes, the white blood cells that engulf and kill bacteria.[26] These effects seem to be independent of their antibacterial effect.[27]
These immunosuppressive properties decrease the amount of L-form and biofilm bacteria killed by the immune system. This is why some people report feeling better on high-dose antibiotics. The high levels of antibiotic prevents the immune system from killing these forms of bacteria, resulting in a temporary decrease in the toxins the pathogens release as they die and the inflammatory cytokines produced by the immune system. However, in reality, the person’s L-form bacteria remain alive and find it easier to spread to new tissues and organs.
The most effective way to avoid this problem is to use low doses of pulsed antibiotics. Pulsed dosing refers to administering a dose periodically, such as every 48 hours, rather than once or several times daily. When given in this manner, the immunosuppressive effects of the antibiotics are minimized but their ability to weaken bacterial ribosomes remains intact. Patients gradually increase the dosage of the pulsed antibiotic, so that species of bacteria that are susceptible to all different concentration levels will eventually be targeted.
A report in the European Journal of Clinical Microbiology found that treating the bacterial species Staphylococcus aureus with only 1/32 of the minimum inhibitory dose of clindamycin (a very small dose!) resulted in enhanced uptake of the bacteria by white blood cells called polymorphonuclear cells, and enhanced killing of the pathogens by another class of white blood cells called phagocytes. Not surprisingly, the team found that only bacteriostatic antibiotics (the class of antibiotics used by the MP) possess this ability. Antibiotics that work by blocking cell wall production such as penicillin, cefotiam, peperacillin, and vancomycin where unable to elicit such an effect.[28]
Similarly, researchers at the University of Iowa found that subinhibitory concentrations of the bacteriostatic antibiotic azithromycin significantly decreased biomass and maximal thickness in both forming and established biofilms. These extremely low concentrations of azithromycin inhibited biofilms in all but the most highly resistant isolates. In contrast, subinhibitory concentrations of gentamicin, which is not a bacteriostatic antibiotic, had no effect on biofilm formation. In fact, biofilms actually became resistant to gentamicin at concentrations far above the minimum inhibitory concentration.[29]
The advantage of pulsed dosing has been demonstrated in the past. It has long been known that pulsing levels of the hormone GNRH is most effective against infertility. Similarly, intermittent doses of antibiotics seem to disrupt the immune system’s natural state of homeostasis, thus provoking a greater immune response. When antibiotics are taken in low, pulsed, doses, they are also able to effectively eliminate biofilm persister cells in a way that high-dose antibiotics cannot.[2]
Recent research has also demonstrated that pulsing antibiotics can be a superior way of targeting treatment resistant biofilm bacteria. According to researchers at Tulane University who mathematically modeled the action of antibiotics on bacterial biofilms, “exposing a biofilm to low concentration doses of an antimicrobial agent for longer time is more effective than short time dosing with high antimicrobial agent concentration.”[30] Several studies have shown that even when administered in low, pulsed doses, the bacteriostatic antibiotics are still able to decrease the production of bacterial exoproteins.[2]
The Th1 pathogens have evolved mechanisms that allow them to live for long periods of time within the cells, and when alive, generally persist without generating too many symptoms. It is when the Th1 pathogens die that they begin to cause a major increase in symptoms for the host, since as they die they release large amounts of toxins and cytokines, proteins that generate pain and fatigue. Additionally, as the Th1 pathogens die, the cell that they have parasitized dies as well, and cellular debris is released into the bloodstream. This means that once patients begin the MP, each dose of antibiotic will cause them to feel bad for the period of time it takes their immune system to deal with the consequences of L-form bacterial die-off.[31][32]
The severity of the immunopathology reaction differs from person to person depending on bacterial load and the species of bacteria that need to be killed. Patients can adjust their level of antibiotics, and consequently adjust the severity of the immunopathology response. Patients who are severely ill generally experience stronger immunopathology, whereas patients who start the Marshall Protocol during earlier stages of illness often find that they are able to work and manage a high level of activity despite the rise in symptoms.
Since immunopathology must be carefully managed, the Marshall Protocol takes several years to complete. However immunopathology generally decreases as patients progress to later stages of the treatment, allowing them to become more and more active as time goes on.
Because the Marshall Protocol takes a long time to complete and patients are understandably eager to reach a state of wellness, some people try to raise the dose of their antibiotics too quickly. Unfortunately, this can result in symptoms that are so strong that the patient decides to quit the treatment. Consequently, as described on the Marshall Protocol study site, the cliché, “slow and steady wins the race” can certainly be applied to the manner in which patients should correctly ramp their antibiotics. If a patient feels that their immunopathology has reached an intolerable level there are several mechanisms they can use to dampen the reaction which are discussed in this forum on the Marshall Protocol study site.
Before starting the Marshall Protocol, some patients with chronic inflammatory disease report having trouble tolerating many antibiotics. In most cases, it is discovered that these perceived “allergies” are actually due to the antibiotics provoking changes in immunopathology. According to the Townsend Letter for Doctors and Patients, “Experience with the MP indicates that if the antibiotics are started at low enough dosages, they are generally well tolerated, although patients will usually experience immunopathology responses. The pattern of reaction to the antibiotics are not typical of allergies or toxic side effects, in that they usually manifest as exacerbations of the patient’s usual symptoms, and the reactions decline with subsequent doses as the bacterial load is reduced.”
The tetracycline antibiotics also offer patients an advantage when it comes to bone health. Several studies have shown that the tetracycline antibiotics used by the treatment can increase bone mass.
Researchers at the University of Portugal found that just 1 mug/ml of the tetracycline antibiotics “significantly increased proliferation of human bone marrow and osteoblastic cells without altering their functional activity.” In fact they reported that exposure to the antibiotics actually caused a significant increase in the number of bone cells and amount of bone matrix.[33]
Similarly, researchers at the National Institute of Health in Maryland published a study which found that treating mice with minocycline modestly reduced bone reabsorption and substantially stimulated bone formation.
The team concluded that “oral minocycline can effectively prevent decreases in bone mineral density… through its dual effects on bone resorption and formation.”
Antimicrobial peptides (AMPs) are actually potent, broad-spectrum antibiotics that the body creates naturally. The AMPs have been shown to kill gram-negative and gram-positive bacteria, including strains that are resistant to conventional antibiotics such as Mycobacterium tuberculosis and other cell wall deficient bacteria. They have also been shown to target enveloped viruses, fungi and even transformed or cancerous cells.[34]
The AMPs kill bacteria in a variety of different ways. These include disrupting cell membranes, interfering with metabolism, and targeting machinery inside the cell. In many cases the exact mechanism of killing is not known. In addition to killing bacteria directly, the AMPs have been shown to have a number of immunomodulatory functions that may be involved in the clearance of infection, including the ability to alter host gene expression, inhibit cytokine production, and promote the healing of wounds.
Recent research has revealed that the Vitamin D Receptor controls the activity of numerous AMPs.[35][36][37]
Unfortunately, in chronically ill individuals, L-form bacteria create substances that are able to bind and decrease the activity of the Vitamin D Receptor.[38] 25-D, the precursor form of vitamin D (at levels over 20ng/ml) also binds and deactivates the receptor.[39] Patients who avoid vitamin D and use the Marshall Protocol to kill L-form bacteria allow the VDR to regain function. They also take a medication called Benicar that molecular modeling shows is able to further activate the VDR. All these measures return the Vitamin D Receptor to an active state where it can turn on the pathways that create the AMPs.
Minocycline has been used for decades in a variety of medical therapies. Recently, a multicenter double-blind placebo-controlled trial concluded that minocycline was safe and effective in patients with mild to moderate rheumatoid arthritis and supported its use (alone or as adjunctive therapy) in rheumatic diseases.[40] Tetracyclines have been also used effectively in urogenital, gastrointestinal, and lower respiratory tract infections.[41]
There is no evidence that long-term use of the antibiotics used by the Marshall Protocol leads to resistant species forming. In fact, minocycline was introduced in 1968, and since that time, virtually no organisms have developed resistance to the medication. Minocycline is also one of the few antibiotics that remains active against the bacterial species Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA), despite the fact that for decades, it has been widely prescribed in efforts to control teenage acne.
According to the Physicians Protocol for using antibiotics in rheumatic disease, “Minocycline tends not to cause yeast infections. Some infectious disease experts even believe that it has a mild anti-yeast activity. Women can be on this medication for several years and not have any vaginal yeast infections.”[42]
It is important that patients who begin the Marshall Protocol take their antibiotics exactly as directed. Taking the antibiotics when not using Benicar, dosing the antibiotics at higher levels than directed, or not pulsing them, will significantly decrease or completely stop immunopathology from occurring. Patients may feel better temporarily, but they are no longer killing bacteria.
“Please understand that the Marshall Protocol may seem simple, but it has a lifetime of my own research behind it. Anything you change will likely get you into trouble,” says Marshall.
Furthermore, taking medications or supplements that are not part of the Marshall Protocol can impair the body’s ability to correctly put the antibiotics to use.
Marshall argues, “We have to remember that there are many species we are fighting against. Second, the immune system is so finely balanced between not killing them, and killing them, so that small changes to our lifestyle, or to our food, or caused by other drugs we are taking, might stop the immune system from killing the bacteria. If there is no killing the patient will generally feel better.”
But, if taken correctly, the Marshall Protocol antibiotics, in conjunction with Benicar, have great potential to induce improvement and recovery. “There are plenty of people who show that if the treatment is done in the correct manner, healing is possible,” says Belinda Fenter of Autoimmunity Research Foundation.
50 Responses for "Getting it right: Targeting chronic pathogens with the Marshall Protocol"
Great article, Amy. Easy to understand terminology for the non-medically inclined individual. Thank you for your efforts.
Hi Amy, THANKS. This cleared up a lot for my fogged MP brain. Makes it easier for me to understand a couple of things when the immnopathologo kicks in. In Norway we would say HEIA Amy. (A way of cheering someone on.)
Th:o)mmes
Thank you Amy for this great article, it also has cleared up a lot of grey areas for me.
thanks amy for the great article.
My sister informed me of this research. I think it’s wonderful. We both have auto-immune disorders. The main problem, as I see it, is to find someone who will take this info from a lay person and actually follow the treatment. There is also the problem of reduced income for many disabled by autoimmune disorders.
Hi Kate,
I’m so glad you and your sister are interested in the Marshall Protocol. Because the L-form bacteria that cause chronic inflammatory disease are passed around among family members, it’s no surprise that both of you are no dealing with autoimmune conditions. The good part is that both you can use the MP to recover.
The great majority of people on the MP have actually been quite successful at presenting information to their doctor and getting him/her to take an interest in the MP. Before presenting information to a doctor, it’s always good to become very familiar with the treatment, which you guys are already doing. Then you can explain it to the doctor and address and his his/her concerns. I recommend reading as much information as possible on this site and also on the Marshall Protocol study site. Then print out the documents you think would be most relevant to show to your doctor. You can find a list of Dr. Marshall’s published papers (which are good to show to doctors) at the following link:
http://www.trevormarshall.com/papers.htm
Actually, one MP member has put together a packet of information that people can use to present to their doctor. It’s very good and comprehensive. You can either print out the document, or if you ask, she will send it to you in paper format. Here’s the link to the manual and how to order it:
http://www.ginariggio.com/MPP1PACKET/infopacket.html
The other thing is that there are doctors who already have patients on the MP and are thus familiar with the treatment. Thus they are willing to take on new MP patients without needing to be educated/convinced. Maybe some of these doctors are in your area. You can request a list of MP doctors in your area off the Marshall Protocol study site at this link:
http://www.marshallprotocol.com/forum11/9355.html
The Marshall Protocol is actually the most economical treatment for chronic disease that I have ever come across. You pay for doctor visits but can space them out because the nurse moderators on the MP study site will guide you through the ups and downs of managing your antibiotics free of charge. All other questions about the treatment are also answered free of charge. There is no charge to use the study site.
In terms of getting the medications, the antibiotics are pretty inexpensive. If you have to pay out of pocket for Benicar it is more expensive, but you can order it from Germany or India where it is much cheaper. If you don’t have insurance and make under a certain level of money, you can also apply to get the antibiotics through patient assistant programs. If you qualify you will get the antibiotics for free.
The patient advocates on the website http://www.curemyth1.org (th1 refers to diseases caused by L-form bacteria, hence the name Cure My Th1) can guide you through the process of applying for these programs. They can also show you where to order Benicar so that it is cheaper. There is no charge to use curemyth1 either.
I hope this helps and I hope to see both of you on the study site in the future.
All the best,
Amy
Dear Amy,
I have already congratulated on your wonderful synthesis of a lot of complex science.
I’m not sure if I missed it (maybe you already are doing this), or maybe it is technically difficult or expensive, but I have a suggestion to make. It would be an asset to your site if it were possible to e-mail your articles directly to other people. Right now, I am copying them and pasting them into e-mails to send to people I think would benefit from understanding the MP better.
Also I have a question in regard to your response to the person above. You mentioned that you can get Olmesartan from India cheaper. Could you please send me the information on how to do that? The cost of Olmesartan is very high and I have my daughter on it, and would like to go on it myself, but she is the first priority. If I could get it cheaper, I might be able to go on it too.
However, has anyone verifed the purity and dosages coming from the Indian source? Regulation of these things tends to be weaker in developing countries, although they also tend to have other compensating advantages, like not being so badly distorted by the Pharmaceutical Industry’s power!
Any information you can provide on these two questions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanking you in advance,
Leslirae
Hi Leslirae,
That’s a really good suggestion about creating an option so that the articles could be emailed directly to people. My boyfriend Paul (the person who addresses the technical issues on this site) is already looking into the possibility and will hopefully make it work. Thanks again for the idea.
About the Benicar from India. It can be ordered at the following website but takes several weeks to arrive:
http://www.planetdrugsdirect.com/
According to those who have tried it, it seems to be of perfectly good quality. I believe that to get the process started, you should fax them your prescription, then fill out an online form that establishes how much Benicar you need to order. There are phone numbers of the site that you can call if you need further directions.
Hope this helps!
Amy
Hi Leslirae,
The email this post suggestion is a good one, and I’ve implemented it. I will keep it up until spammers figure out how to beat it. Let’s hope for the best.
Paul
Wow! You two are amazing! That sure was fast!
I don’t understand how spammers would use it, but I will take your word for it, as you obviously are overflowing with technical capacity!
I appreciate this easy way to directly e-mail your wonderful articles. These articles are what people really need when they are trying to learn about the MP! You may flood the MP with newcomers now and help cure a LOT of people with such an easy way of learning this stuff.
Hopefully with a critical mass of cured people, the medical profession will be forced to take notice. It usually takes about a generation though. Which Nobel prizewinner was it that said, “Science advances one death at a time ?” referring to those enforcing the dogma of the conventional wisdom.
One more question for Amy. I tried the website you mentioned as selling Olmesartan from India, and it appears to be a Canadian website. As I am Canadian, I was hoping to find cheaper Olmesartan than I can buy at home. Is there another Indian website that you might know of?
Thanks for all you are doing. It is amazing!
Hi Leslirae,
Yup, Paul is a smart cookie!
I believe that was Max Planck who commented that “science advances one death at a time” – I am inclined to agree.
Yes, the website I sent you to is based in Canada but gets their drugs from around the world. Unfortunately you cannot purchase cheaper Benicar directly from a regular pharmacy. There is another Canadian website that I believe simply sells medications from Canada at cheaper prices, but you still have order them online and fax in your prescription -basically the same deal as the first site. That site is:
http://www.getcanadiandrugs.com
The process of faxing in a prescription and receiving the drugs by mail is actually quite easy (I used to do it and found it even easier then going to a pharmacy), so I would give it a try if you can…
Best,
Amy
I am an active person try to eat right I love my fruits and veggies.Whole foods is my favorite grocery store.I am a professional house music recording artist that have been diagnosed with sarcoidosis.I feel no pain,my vision is fine, but I have a lump in my eyelid and a liitle sweeling by the eyelashes.They said it look like a stye,then diagnosed me with chalazion,sent me home with an antibiotic ointment and to put a warm compress on it,come back in 4 months.I returned they felt that it had grown,(I believe it was the same as started!) they gave MRI thatt showed it moved to muscle,they did X- RAY,bloodwork,both negative.and clear.The biopsy was done still took a while to tell me it’s an inflammation condition,then finally said sarcoidosis.I have ulcerative colitis and do well without meds I am in remmission,I use probitics,flaxseed oil,fiber,and other supplements that deal with building the immune system and inflammation.I am moving to houston in a month and read about the sun being a bad thing for sarcoidosis,I feel fine, but my eye is the issue.The supplements that I am taking now seem to be making the lump smaller,it’s only been a week,I am optimistic because I have healed this way before,I am using Garden of life products,renew life and zyflamend by new chapter.They want to give prednisone and methotrexate,i’m refusing had 14 pounds of water retention when I had a fare up years ago with ulcerative colitis,and I want to get pregnant soon.I’m trying to be on the right trak,open to mre info please email me if any suggestions…Xaviera
Hi Xaviera,
I’m so glad to hear that you are active and that you make an effort to eat very healthy food. I also love Whole Foods.
However when it comes to treating you sarcoidosis and ulcerative colitis, I would strongly advise you not to count on supplements only to reverse or keep your diseases under control.
The lastest molecular modeling research by biomedical researcher Trevor Marshall, which has been confirmed by several other researchers, has made it clear that both sarcoidosis and ulcerative colitis are bacterial illnesses. They are cause by different species of L-form bacteria, or bacteria that have changed form, lost their cell walls, and are able to live undetected inside the cells of the immune system. Although researchers have been studying these bacterial forms for over 100 years, they are extremely difficult to culture in the lab and don’t show up on the blood tests currently used by doctors. Hence your physician has no clue about your infections.
This article describes L-form bacteria in greater detail:
http://bacteriality.com/2007/08/15/l-forms/
This article is an interview with a researcher who works with L-form bacteria:
http://bacteriality.com/2007/09/09/markova-interview/
You simply cannot kill L-form bacteria with supplements. If that were the case there wouldn’t be thousands of people on the Marshall Protocol today, all of them (including me) who at one point thought they could use supplements to control their illness and later found that they gradually got sicker as their bacteria began to spread.
To date, there is only one treatment that can effectively kill these bacterial forms. It’s called the Marshall Protocol, and patients on the treatment use a medication that activates the immune system along with pulsed, low-dose antibiotic to gradually wear away at their bacterial load.
The treatment is being used by physicians worldwide and is gradually becoming accepted as the only treatment that can target the root CAUSE of sarcoidosis and other inflammatory diseases, rather then just use supplements or other drugs to bandaid or cover up the symptoms.
Information about the treatment can be found at the study site:
http://www.marshallprotocol.com
The site is run by the staff of the Autoimmunity Research Foundation, a California-based non-profit agency. Over 200 health professionals are members of the site, and discussions are moderated by a group of volunteer nurses. There is no charge to use the website or the treatment and all patients are welcome to participate.
You may also want to check out the Autoimmunity Research Foundation website:
http://autoimmunityresearch.org/
The following article provides a good summary of the treatment:
“About the Marshall Protocol”
http://bacteriality.com/about-the-mp/
I urge you to try the treatment because I was once where you are now. I took hundreds of supplements which, for periods of time, made it seem like my CFS was under control. Then down the road I would inevitably relapse and get worse.
Also in your favor is that fact that it doesn’t seem like your disease has spread very much at this point. This means that you should progress through the Marshall Protocol at faster then most other people and target your bacterial load quickly. This is a perfect time to start the MP – before your illness has spread or gotten worse.
Many people have been able to manage being on the Marshall Protocol and also raising children. Here are a few examples. And these women probably had higher bacterial loads then you when they started.
“Interview with Leesa Shanahan”
http://bacteriality.com/2007/11/19/interview12/
“Interview with Shirley J”
http://bacteriality.com/2007/11/04/interview7/
I’m sure you have more questions about the Marshall Protocol. A good place to ask them is at the following website:
http://www.curemyTh1.org (Th1 refers to diseases caused by L-form bacteria, hence the name Cure My Th1). the patient advocates on that site, who volunteer for Autoimmunity Research Foundation, will answer your questions free of charge.
I know it seems easier to just take supplements to control your illness at this point, but if you start the Marshall Protocol now you can CURE your illness. You won’t have to take supplements anymore, your immune system will gain strength naturally again. Then, in my opinion, at that point, you will be the best mother you can be.
Best,
Amy
PS I’m so glad you’ve turned down prednisone and methodextrate. Those steroid medications wreak havoc on the immune system allowing L-form bacteria to spread much more easily.
Great website! You are doing an extraordinary service for all of us suffering
from TH1 diseases.
How about doing an interview with Dr. Marshall? It would be interesting to hear
his story about how he developed the protocol and what he foresees as the future
of the MP.
Dear ,
Yes, Dr. Marshall certainly has a lot to discuss these days. I asked him about interviews when I started this site. At the moment, he prefers to keep a low profile in order to minimize the controversy that inevitably results from many of his statements. So instead of interviewing him directly, he makes a big point of keeping me in the loop. If he has any new theories or issues to discuss we speak about them over the phone. Then he encourages me to serve as a reporter and communicate them to the public which is what I try to do in my pieces.
However this past week I was in Sweden at the Days of Molecular Medicine Conference along with Dr. Marshall and nurse moderator Meg Mangin. We spoke a great deal and Paul caught a large portion of the conference on video. Dr. Marshall was OK with the fact that Paul asked him several questions about his work and the MP pathogenesis. We also have candid footage of him speaking about many issues related to the MP. This coming week Paul will be compiling the footage into a video clip that I will post here.
I hope you and the other readers will enjoy seeing Dr. Marshall and Meg in the video. They each have a great sense of humor. At the same time, they are both incredibly driven. Dr. Marshall barely sleeps and didn’t even eat lunch during the conference so that he could speak to more people about the MP.
So a video should be up soon with at least some clips of Dr. Marshall discussing the MP.
Best,
Amy
Amy,
Thank you for this easy to understand piece. It was nice not to need my medical dictionary as I was reading! Sometimes I just need to re-connect with the facts for support…
Your articles give a lot of support.
I am so thrilled to see how you are healing!(Paul too)
Thanks,
CJ
Thanks CJ!!!
Amy
Amy,
FYI, I’m in the vitamin D camp and this is the first site I’ve come across that’s mentions a contraindication to it’s use in certain disease states. To say the least I’m very intrigued and am reading everything I can from your site, but this will take a while!! If you can I would appreciate any info you can provide regarding binding or dissociation (Kd) constants.
1. Do you know any binding affinities (Kd’s) of 25(OH)D and 1,25(OH)D to the VDR?
2. Kd value of 1,25(OH)D to other nuclear receptors?
3. Kd of Benicar to the VDR and others, ie A2R?
4. Do you agree/disagree with the belief/view that there’s a certain range of 25(OH)D that we ‘usually’ have while in ‘good’ health? and not suffering from certain autoimmune or Th1 insults which could get aggravated by having this range? From what I’ve read, the vitamin D camp suggests a range of 40-70ng/mL via sunshine or what’s controversial these days of high dose supplementing to make up the difference.
5. isn’t 25(OH)D binding to the VDR a good thing in certain circumstances? ie preventing an overactive immune system such as in autoimmune disease states?
6. AMP’s produced by other receptors? It sounds like the VDR only produces a small portion of all AMP’s. Are they more potent than AMP’s produced by other receptors? Does 1,25(OH)D upon binding to other nuclear receptors shut down all AMP’s when elevated. Or in another way, do L-bacteria bind other nuclear receptors and shut them down or is it just the VDR?? Why so much concern about VDR when it could be all the receptors combined that cause the immune system to be incapable of mounting an attack against L-Bact???
My view after reading for the past day is this….Under normal circumstances 25(OH)D binds the VDR and keeps things quiet-which is good when you don’t need an immune response. When the immune system needs to be activated then 25(OH)D gets converted to 1,25(OH)D and activates the VDR which results in an immune cascade, ie AMP’s. If L-bacteria prevent the binding and activation of the VDR by 1, 25(OH)D then the body would try and produce even more 1,25(OH)D to try and get VDR activation. This leads to a huge increase in circulating 1,25(OH)D levels which results in non specific binding to other nuclear receptors. Also, it makes sense that when 1,25(OH)D production gets out of control that there would be a feedback loop in place to slow down D3 conversion to 25(OH)D, hence the ironic drop in 25(OH)D in the presence 1,25(OH)D. How do L-Bacteria block the VDR so well? The only way I see this is if 1,25(OH)D doesn’t bind the receptor with that high of affinity. Since Benicar can bind with L-bact , I’m assuming it must be an extremely potent binder, ie Kd=nanamolar. I would understand this then, and assume that 1,25(OH)D binds at an order of magnitude less, ie Kd=uM. Do you know??? I’m also guessing that 25(OH)D also binds the VDR even weaker than 1,25(OH)D or else it couldn’t be displaced by 1,25(OH)D when the VDR actually needed to be activated for an immune response. Just because 25(OH)D doesn’t bind the VDR at levels below 20ng/mL you’re not suggesting people should strive for these levels unless they’re sick with Th1 pathogenesis, because statistics (empirical evidence…etc) that suggest higher levels actually bring certain health benefits?
Thanks for reading and your response,
Jamey
Hi Jamey,
Thanks for writing. I admire you for being open-minded when it comes to vitamin D. Unfortunately a lot of people from the “vitamin D” camp dismiss Marshall’s work before actually reading it, which of course, makes it hard to actually debate the issues at hand!
Anyway, in regard to your questions.
The KI value of 25-D for the VDR = 8.3
The KI value of 1,25-D VDR is 8.4
The KI value of Benicar for the VDR = 7.8
As you can see, Benicar does have the highest affinity for the VDR, meaning it can effectively displace 1,25-D and 25-D from the receptor. Of course not completely, but as bacterial load drops and 1,25-D falls back into range (and the patient cuts back on 25-D) it can have an ever greater effect.
One of the major bacterial ligands that Marshall has found to block the VDR is the sulpholipid capnine which is created by Flavobacter. It’s KI for the VDR is 61 nanmolars. Marshall hasn’t taken the time to calculate the KI value for the capnine as one can see pretty clearly from this video that it’s a strong VDR antagonist.
The video is a Real-Format video of a molecular dynamics simulation of capnine in the VDR ligand binding pocket (LPB), showing an exceptionally stable dynamic configuration. Its action as an antagonist is confirmed by the LBP expanding in size during the entire period of the simulation, and losing the configuration in which it can bind to the DRIP205 coactivator and transcribe the AMP genes.
http://autoimmunityresearch.org/models/capnine-vdrh.ram
Here is a video of Benicar activating the VDR:
http://autoimmunityresearch.org/models/vdr-olme-podcast.mp4
It took Marshall 10 hours on the fastest available desktop CPU to simulate 750 picoseconds (10 ** -12 seconds) of interaction between the VDR and Benicar. Phew!
In the video the Benicar molecule is just to the right of center of the image, in the background. Don’t bother too much about the stick and ball amino acids at the lower front of the image – they are very important for reasons too complex to describe here:) The structure of the VDR is represented by the yellowy spiral backbones.
OK so there’s some of the computational information you were looking for. Before we go any farther I strongly suggest you read Marshall’s latest paper recently published in BioEssays that flushes out vitamin D metabolism. Note the feedback pathways describe in figure 1 which are particularly important and the effects of VDR blockage on the CYP24 and CYP27A1 – enzymes which normally keep the body’s level of 1,25-D in the correct range:
http://TrevorMarshall.com/BioEssays-Feb08-Marshall-Preprint.pdf
Many of the questions you asked in your post are addressed in that paper, but I will try to clarify some of your main questions here.
You say that 25-D might be helpful in preventing an overactive immune system as would be observed in “autoimmune” disease. Understanding Marshall’s work on vitamin D comes hand in hand with the realization that there is no such thing as autoimmune disease. The theory that the body’s immune system somehow “attacks itself” is rapidly being replaced by the reality that chronic intraphagocytic, metagenomic bacteria are causing the inflammation observed in “autoimmune” disease.
If “autoimmune diseases” are actually the result of infection, then it is NOT a good thing to slow or taper the activity of the immune system with a secosteroid such as 25-D. It’s true that slowing the immune system response towards chronic pathogens will slow the painful inflammatory response that occurs when they are killed, resulting in temporary palliation. But because the immune system is slowed, the pathogens can actually spread with greater ease in the long-run.
So like any other steroid, if 25-D reaches high enough levels and blocks the VDR it will indeed lower inflammation and symptoms in the short-term by decreasing the painful bacterial die-off reaction (immunopathology). But the long-term effects of pathogens spreading with greater ease means that patients never actually recover and 20-30 years down the road are actually sicker than when they started supplementing with “vitamin” D (these chronic pathogens take a long time to grow and spread)
So supplementation with vitamin D = short-term palliation, long-term harm. Yet this pattern will never be understood until it is accepted that the inflammation observed in chronic disease is caused by chronic bacteria.
The Vitamin D Receptor transcribes the bulk of the body’s antimicrobial peptides (beta-Defensin and cathelecin are the major families) as well as other important components of innate immunity such as TLR2, so it very much controls the activity of the innate immune response. Not to mention that it transcribes hundreds and possibly thousands of very important genes that also help the body fight disease, such as the gene for Tumor Metastasis Protein.
The other nuclear receptors also transcribe families of AMPs but their effects on pathogen death are not as prominent. Still, a very sick individual with very high levels of 1,25-D will dysregulate these AMP families as well and will become even more immunosuppressed than ever. So we are not denying the fact that the more VDR blockage one suffers (it’s the VDR blockage that leads to high 1,25-D levels), and the more pathogens one acquires, the more a patient will become immunocompromised and unable to manage their illness at all.
So as you can see, it’s never good to keep the VDR “under control” to any extent. You simply want it to be as active as possible so it best target infectious agents. Also, it’s wishful thinking to assume that the body will convert stored 25-D to 1,25-D if it needs to activate the VDR. That may be the case if both 25-D and 1,25-D levels are very low. But as soon as 25-D rises to a high leve (as with supplementation) and 1,25-D becomes high due to the disease process, the body doesn’t need any more 1,25D. So all 25-D remains in its precursor form where it blocks the VDR.
You’re right, it’s those people who harbor chronic bacteria that need to actively avoid vitamin D. Because their VDRs are already largely blocked by bacterial ligands the the less 25-D they consume the better.
But as patients return to a state of health and the VDR is blocked by fewer pathogen-induced ligands, they can tolerate more 25-D. We would suggest that recovered MP patients get the amount of vitamin D they would get from eating a well-rounded diet and moderate sun exposure.
Of course, one must keep in mind that nearly the whole population harbors at least some of these chronic bacterial forms. So one cannot simply assume that they are healthy. If fact, if a person feels “better” when taking vitamin D it is likely a sign that they are slowing bacterial death and subsequently a sign that they have bacteria to kill in the first place.
Hope this helps!
Amy
What milligrams dosage level (you say should be low) of Minocycline would you recommend for chronic fatigue syndrome please (a person not undertaking the marshall protocol).
Regards
Dean
Hi Dean,
My first questions is “why not use the Marshall Protocol in order to recover from CFS?” Minocycline is completely incapable of killing all the different bacterial species that cause CFS on its own. So while you may lower your bacterial load somewhat by taking minocycline, you will never recover.
Also, if one does not take Benicar along with minocycline the immune system is hardly able to put the minocycline to use.
So I recommend you do the full treatment.
However, if you really just want to know how the Protocol doses minocycline, it’s taken every other day. Patients start by taking 25 mg and gradually ramp up to 100 mg.
Best,
Amy
Hi Amy,
Thanks for the info – it really is for my friend and just wanted to know what may best help to fight the borrelia infection, which is often associated with such syndromes – I know there are also others l-form species which play a part. (Sorry I did not have time to re-read your article fully this time around, although I have done so in the past).
Also an important thing in recovery may be to improve the lymphatic system flow – called the Perrin technique – I know a girl who cured herself just by doing this self massage technique (and there are many others out there), although her chronic fatigue was not a severe as for many people. Otherwise the infection cannot clear itself as easily, since the lymphatic system gets blocked or sluggish.
People even get “varicose veins” of the lymph system as it becomes so sluggish.
http://www.theperrinclinic.com/
Regards
Dean
Hi Dean,
Yes, Borrelia is just one of many, many, chronic pathogens that contribute to CFS, Lyme and other chronic inflammatory diseases.
You’re right. Improving lymphatic flow certainly can’t hurt recovery on the MP (or recovery from any form of infection). The lymph system allows the body to train some of the toxins created by the bacteria that cause inflammatory disease. Immune cells are also produced by a healthy lymphatic system. So techniques like lymph massage while a person on the MP can potentially help them better tolerate the immunopathological response.
But I disagree that boosting the lymph system alone can allow anyone to recover from a chronic disease. The bacteria causing the disease must be killed which is something the lymph system cannot accomplish. Since stimulating the lymph nodes can allow for better detoxification, a person may feel temporarily better after a lymph cleansing procedure. But toxins are bound to accumulate again if the bacteria that cause their production remain alive. And even a good lymphatic system cannot provide much relief against serious chronic infection.
Best,
Amy
Amy,
Thanks for another great article.
Could you please provide a reference for the G.A.W. Rook quote in the second paragraph of this article? I’d love to look up that full study and read it.
Chris
Hi Chris,
I was a bit confused. There was no quote from Rook in the post you commented on, but there was a quote in this one, so I moved your comment here.
Also, I cited the Rook comment. It should be cite #1.
Hope this helps.
Amy
Oops! Wrong post. Thanks for correcting it, and for the reference.
Hi Amy,
I have Sarcoidosis and thought there is no permanent cure for it. By chance I came across the wonderful Marshall Protocol website and it seems there is a cure after all!
I am based in India and I do not know any doctor who practices the MP. Do you have a list of doctors in India under whose treatment I can start this magical treatment? Since I cannot afford to move out of India for this treatment your list of doctors will be a great help.
Hope to get your answer soon. Thank you.
Priya
Hi Priya,
I applaud you interest in the MP. There are a couple of physicians who reportedly treat patients with the MP in India, but the list is old so you may have to reach out to a new doctor. Watch for my email.
Best,
Amy
Hi Amy,
I wonder if using acididophilus would kill the l bacteria? Also if echinnacea would stimulate the immune system.
I’m looking for a way to do MP without prescription meds.
thanks, Dana
Hi Amy, I have interstitial cystitis. Has there been any discussion about whether this is classified as an auto-immune disease, and would the Marshall Protocol work? Thanks.
Hi Dana,
I work closely with Amy and volunteer for Autoimmunity Research Foundation.
In a word, the answer is no. There is no evidence that acidophilus or echinacea can kill chronic pathogens in the way that the Marshall Protocol medications can. There’s certainly no indication that either of these substances activate the Vitamin D Receptor. On the other hand, the Marshall Protocol is supported by a range of compelling molecular and clinical research.
In fact, if you read Amy’s post Pondering Probiotics, you will see there’s reason to believe that introduction of additional bacteria may make matters worse – even if a patient feels temporarily better.
Best,
Paul
Hi Jill,
I work closely with Amy and volunteer for Autoimmunity Research Foundation.
Interstitial cystitis is definitely one of those chronic inflammatory diseases treatable by the Marshall Protocol. The suffix “itis,” which means inflammation, is definitely a tipoff. Also, Gerald Domingue found L-form bacteria in patients with IC.
Finally, I happen to know that at least a few MP patients have seen their IC resolve as a result of the MP. Lori (username LH1953) posted about her IC resolving on the MP.
Best,
Paul
amy
this is a wonderful site and a wealth of information, i am going in for a biopsy w/in the next two weeks to determine if i have sarcoidosis apparently i have a substantial amout of swelling in my lungs/lymphnodes. i just spent 3 weeks in the hospitol with a multitude of tests and a serious infection, the Drs are still trying to figure out what it is, my pulminologist believes it is sarcoidosis but wants to be sure, hence the biopsy, so we will see, but you site has at least given me hope.
thanks
gary
What do I say to my Dr who is asking for a copy of randomized controlled trials and published papers from medical journals.
Thanks,
Greg
Hi Gary,
I’m sorry that your are feeling symptomatic. I also know a possible sarcoidosis diagnosis can be scary, but you are very right that the Marshall Protocol offers great hope in terms of reversing the disease process.
You may not think this often these days, but in my eyes you are very lucky. As you may know, sarcoidosis is increasingly being viewed as a chronic bacterial disease. Since you are just beginning to feel inflammation and symptoms, if you are diagnosed with sarc, your bacterial load is likely very low. You have also not taken any immunosuppressant medications or corticosteroids that would make the disease worse by slowing the immune system.
So what I’m saying is that if you do get a sarc diagnosis and start the MP soon after, you would likely be able to target your bacterial load much more quickly and efficiently than the average sarc patient on the MP (many of whom have been sick for decades). I doubt you would become very light sensitive and if you dosed your antibiotics reasonably, you could probably keep up with a lifestyle that is fairly similar to what you are living now because your immunopathology would not be that strong.
I can’t guarantee the above, of course, but I do think that one of the keys to best succeeding on the MP is to begin the treatment when the disease process is starting – and you have the opportunity to do just that.
Good luck and I hope you can start treatment depending upon what your doctors detect.
Best,
Amy
Hi Greg,
To date, no randomized, controlled study has been done on the MP. It is likely that such a trial will never take place when it comes to the MP. Since the treatment takes several years to complete our foundations and other organizations we have contacted believe it is unethical to create a placebo group that would be denied treatment for up to 4-5 years in order to keep the data accurate.
However, you can tell you doctor that Dr. Marshall has just signed a collaborative agreement with West China Hospital in Fushan China. The hospital, which is the second largest clinical center in the world, will be starting the first cohort study of the MP – which is what they have agreed is the best way to access the potential of the MP.
Dr. Marshall and team have published several peer-reviewed papers and have spoken at several prestigious conferences over the past years. You can find a list of such papers and transcripts/videos of the talks at this link:
http://mpkb.mp-dev.com/doku.php#publications_presentations
I hope your doctor reads through the above information and if necessary he can always called Dr. Marshall directly if he has questions. Dr. Marshall’s number is in the phase 1 guidelines:
http://www.marshallprotocol.com/forum2/2275.html
Best,
Amy
I have been on AP since last summer with good results, however it is not Marshall protocol with benicar. The rheumy I go to is only doing this to appease me. Do you have a list of doctor’s in North Florida, or South Alabama or Georgia? Thanks
Hi Terrell,
You can request a list of MP doctors on CureMyTh1.org.
Best,
Paul
Hi Amy,
Hi Amy,
Would you know if there are any medical institutions in Poland that use MP for treatment of sarcoidosis. My best friend has just been diagnosed and she is searching for the most effective therapy. She lives near the border with Germany and Czech Republic, so this would also be possible options if you have nobody to refer to in Poland.
I would greatly appreciate any help you can provide.
Thanks
Irena
Hi Irena,
Here is the Knowledge Base page on finding a doctor.
The best place to start is to go to CureMyTh1.org and request a list of nearby doctors in the appropriate forum.
Hope this helps and that you dins a doctor.
Best,
Paul
Some on the MP recover from their illness very quickly and others, like myself, seem to take forever. This difference has been attributed to the bacterial load of the individual. The greater the load the longer it takes to recover. However, I wonder if it has more to do with the unique infection of each individual. Does the MP really target all the bacteria responsible for my particular disease? Do the pathogens for my disease require the activation of parts of the immune system that the MP does not effect? For example, I understand activation of the VDR enables the production of the antimicrobial peptides called beta-defensins. What about the alpha-defensins? Does the VDR have any effect on these?
Hi Ken,
Amy could probably give you a better answer, but literally as I write she is giving her presentation in Beijing.
I’ve followed your progress from afar. Working against you, you have a nasty case of Crohn’s, a previous doctor who chose to put you on corticosteroids, and kidney infection. Ugh!!!
In your comment, you suggest that each individual’s infection is unique, yet people with a wide range of inflammatory conditions invariably respond to the MP in uniform fashion, obviously with slight variations.
Can and does a dysregulated VDR be responsible for the whole lot of chronic diseases? Absolutely. You got to remember that the VDR controls perhaps thousands of genes – AMPs, TLR2, bones, hair, etc. (By the way, was it you or another Ken who said his hair color is changing, at least slightly? If so, doesn’t that say something?)
For a person who has doubts about the MP science, I would suggest taking a look at what is predicted. Are you responding in the same way as other people who have been on the MP who have since gotten better? Do you respond to Benicar? Do you experience calculated increases in immunopathology when you take your antibiotics? My conclusion is that so long as you continue to experience immunopathology, you are getting better. That’s all there is to it.
Obviously, there’s only so many bacteria in your body, but that so many is a lot.
Sometimes it seem like getting well on the MP is almost the hardest thing in the world. I admire your willingness to stick it out.
Have a look at the KB article Grappling with uncertainty in case it might be the least bit helpful.
Best,
Paul
I also have Crohn’s and I started the MP about five months ago under the guidance of Dr. Blaney. My situation is a little different than Ken’s, in that I have never taken immunosuppressant drugs and my disease is not as severe.
That said, I also find myself wondering if the MP is doing anything at all. I’ve just started Phase II (took my first dose of 25 mg of azithromycin a couple of days ago). I don’t notice anything after I take the minocycline – no obvious immunopathology at all. In the beginning I did notice that I felt worse the day after I took the mino, but I haven’t experienced that for several weeks now.
I’m not feeling better, and I’m not feeling worse. It seems I’m more or less in the same place I was when I started in terms of symptoms. Sometimes they flare up, sometimes they’re more subdued. But that’s how it has always been.
I am experiencing side effects from the Benicar, though. Some days I get dizzy and lightheaded every time I stand up. I asked Dr. Blaney about this and he told me to eat more salt and drink more water. I’m maxed out on salt & water, and I’m taking a licorice extract (which boosts BP), but I still feel dizzy and lightheaded when I stand up very often.
I can’t help wondering at this point whether I’m a “non-responder”. Dr. Blaney told me his wife tried the protocol but didn’t notice anything at all, so he had her stop.
That’s a harder call to make when someone is really sick. How can I tell if I’m experiencing IP or just going through the normal ebb and flow of symptoms I’ve always experienced? This was one of my concerns when I first started the MP, and it still is.
Hi Chris,
Well, first of all, if I were you I would stop taking the licorice extract unless Dr. Blaney specifically told you it was a good idea. In my humble opinion, the body is a sophisticated machine, and the last thing you want to do is monkey around with its homeostasis.
When you say you are a non-responder, you mean to the antibiotics. It’s pretty clear you are responding to the Benicar and not for its effect on blood pressure. As a hypotensive, Benicar is not powerful enough to make a person feel this way unless it were having some other effect. Do you know how many healthy people become dizzy and lightheaded when they take Benicar? Three percent. And that is the only reaction more common than in placebo. Have a look at the KB article on low blood pressure.
As for why, Dr. Blaney’s wife didn’t respond to the MP, did he mention that she had Crohn’s? If she did, maybe I could see your point. Only people sick with inflammatory disease respond to the MP – virtually every one in fact. Based on your response to Benicar, I would definitely lump you in that category.
All that said, some people respond to the antibiotics in different ways. I spent the first 18 months or so of my MP journey freaking out that it wasn’t working. Meanwhile it was, I just didn’t realize it. The freaking out was a symptom. (Duh!) I didn’t really have too much ebb and flow when I took my antibiotics for most, if not all, of the treatment, yet here I am. And I feel great. I’m so happy with the MP.
Maybe you’ll be like me, or maybe it will take a while for the antibiotics to kick in, which is very common. This was certainly true for Amy. If I remember right, at the year mark, she could no longer take the full dose of Zithromax and had to cut way back, because it was having such a profound effect.
From my perspective, you are just starting the MP. Relax, this is going to take some time. To paraphrase the American Revolutionary war hero John Paul Jones, “You have not yet begun to do the MP.”
Best,
Paul
Hi Paul,
I am definitely responding to the protocol. There has been an increase in symptoms when I’ve increased antibiotic dosage and I’ve experienced and continue to experience many of the symptoms such as light sensitivity and muscle soreness experienced by others on the protocol. Sometimes there has been sudden increase in symptoms making it necessary to reduce the antibiotics and/or increase the dosage of Benicar.
Based on my response to the protocol and my understanding of how the protocol works, I’m quite confident that bacteria are being killed. I also have evidence of reversal of disease. It’s obvious me, and to my dentist, that my periodontal disease is reversing. It’s also obvious to my wife, but not to me, that my hair color is changing (i.e. there is less grey hair). Yes, I think I am the Ken you were thinking of.
Unfortunately, I have not yet experienced an obvious reversal of my Crohn’s disease, even though I’ve been on the protocol (more or less) since 2005. In fact I’m having problems with Crohn’s disease now that require surgery. This makes me think that while the MP is targeting the bacteria causing some of my disease conditions, such as periodontal disease, it may not be targeting the bacteria causing my particular case of Crohn’s disease. Is it possible that the MP does not target all of the bacteria causing chronic illness in an individual? If so, how can we tell which disease conditions in an individual will be resolved by the protocol and which will not?
Hopefully, my Crohn’s symptoms will resolve over time and I will keep all the rest of my body parts. Meanwhile, I’d like to understand the limits of the protocol, preferably in scientific terms (ex. other receptors affecting immunity, immune responses required for different bacteria species). I’m aware of the potential of the protocol to cure disease. Now I’d like to understand the limits of the protocol for curing disease as well.
Ken
Hi Ken,
Yes, it’s possible that the MP doesn’t kill all forms of chronic bacteria, although I think it does a pretty good job. But since we don’t yet know all the bacteria in humans I can’t give you a definitive answer to what is or is not being killed. So I cannot tell you any specific limits of the MP.
Personally I think as the innate immune response gains strength over the course of the MP, most bacteria are going to have a very hard time staying alive. Bacteria really shouldn’t be able to persist in the face of a fully activated immune response.
Also, consider is that when pathogens dysregulate the VDR a flow on effect occurs where high levels of 1,25-D accumulate. These high levels of 1,25-D can then proceed to dysregulate many other nuclear receptors – the androgen receptor, the thyroid receptors, etc. Each of such receptors also expresses their own families of AMPs – around 15-20 each.
So enough VDR dysregulation actually causes a knock-out blow to the body’s entire ability to express antimicrobial peptides. By the way, the VDR also transcribes about 18 AMPs. The reason I always mention catheledicin and the beta defensins is because they are some of the most potent AMPs. So I give them as examples because I think people would get impatient if I rattle off the whole list. Add those to the AMPs knocked out my the other receptors and the number of AMPs stunted by VDR regulation number is the 40s. And more correlations may exist that we don’t know about.
So when you remove VDR blockage over the course of the MP nearly all the body’s AMPs are expressed again. If you want a better review of what I’ve just described look at my Porto speech again.
In terms of your Crohn’s symptoms, you write:
“In fact I’m having problems with Crohn’s disease now that require surgery.”
To me that does suggest that your symptoms are still being exacerbated, and by to immunopathology. It sounds like your colon is very, very infected.
I assume that pre-MP you would have rated your worst symptoms to be your colon symptoms. Maybe by a very large margin? Then wouldn’t it take much longer for the colon symptoms to resolve than your other symptoms?
But I encourage you to stick with this. There is no way you haven’t reduced a significant portion of your bacterial load in your colon after so many years. Try to focus on the hair and other improvements. I think the hair is pretty cool!
Hang in there!
Amy
Thanks Amy,
You wrote exactly what I needed to read. Until now I’ve ignored your Porto speech because I thought it was only about women’s health and so would not apply to men.
Given the range of anti-microbial peptides’ production restored by the protocol it seems likely that, as long as an individual is responding to the treatment, the bacteria responsible for an individual’s disease conditions would be destroyed. It’s unfortunate that this destruction results in an exasperation of symptoms. For a seriously infected patient like myself, this could result in a life-threatening situation such as intestinal blockage. For patients like me it’s like having to go through a wall of fire to get through to the garden of Eden – a real test of one’s determination.
Ken
Whoa!
I am not sure how I got here this evening but 5 hours later I am incredibly excited about the possibility of real change and true healing.
I was diagnosed with severe rheumatoid arthritis 18 years ago post desert storm where I was a navy nurse. I say severe because the arsenal of poisons at my disposal did nothing to alter the course of damage to my body, in fact, contributed to compounding my illness with chronic anemia, osteoporosis and recurring infections. Prednisone and some anti-inflammatory since day 1 has been a constant. 3 years ago I reluctantly began enbrel (with much trepidation) and it admittedly got me out of a wheelchair full-time. But I have always sought something saner…nutrition, nutraceuticals, ab tx., chelation, low dose naltrexone and IV alpha lipoic acid, mms, acupuncture, magnets, h20o2 tx. ETC. I am about to begin IV dmso and oxidative tx with an integrative DO. Thousands of dollars later I wake each day to prednisone and an anti-inflammatory. And twice monthly the enbrel. I have had nearly every joint replaced or fused including my neck. And my h/h is routinely 7ish/26ish. Last year I broke my femur walking across my living room.
I have been convinced of the infectious nature of mine and others autoimmune illnesses and have finally found bartonella and other mycoplasma in my blood (tho, I expected and even hoped for m.fermentans, being a desert storm vet).
I have never given up tho it sometimes takes too much time or energy or hope to research, discover, assimilate, and incorporate new-to-me ideas and treatment plans. And I am in a system, the veterans administration, that is hesitant, at best, to accept new methods. My heart is so full of hope!
I do wonder how to engage in this MP with enbrel (etanercept) and steroid and celebrex(cox2 inhhibitor) on board? I was prescribed doxycycline 3 days ago! (very timely), and have been given 3 vit d shots over the last month to get my level of 24 up to a therapeutic 65! Also getting Fe shots. And was just recently prescribed cortef 10mg and 5mg bid to replace the prednisone 3mg that I weaned down to over the last 2 years.
Plz advize!!!
And thank you, all of you, involved in this. I feel like my life has just been saved…the parachute opens after all.
Hi Catgirl,
In my humble opinion, “whoa” is indeed the correct sentiment! I got to say, you are taking lots of drugs. You and your doctors are doing everything in your power to completely to turn off your immune response.
If you’re game, we have lots more you can read. Amy has lots of great articles here on Bacteriality, but we also have another resource, the Marshall Protocol Knowledge Base, which may better answer some of your specific questions. Keep in mind that the KB is a work in progress.
So, here is the KB article which links out to articles describing many of the treatments you’re taking:
http://mpkb.mp-dev.com/doku.php/home:othertreatments
And here are some articles on all those lovely drugs you are taking:
http://mpkb.mp-dev.com/doku.php/home:patients:assessing_literature:palliative
http://mpkb.mp-dev.com/doku.php/home:othertreatments:antitnf
http://mpkb.mp-dev.com/doku.php/home:othertreatments:antibacterials:doxycycline
http://mpkb.mp-dev.com/doku.php/home:othertreatments:corticosteroids
One of the articles I don’t have written is on Cortef.
Here’s the article on working with a physician:
http://mpkb.mp-dev.com/doku.php/home:starting:physician
You may want to read the article written on stress and the section, “War – A Crucible for Disease”:
http://mpkb.mp-dev.com/doku.php/home:social:stress#war_a_crucible_for_chronic_disease
There’s lots more stuff here. Snoop around and see what you can find. Check back in and let us know if you have quesitons, or, faster/better service go to CureMyTh1.org, an online site where we discuss the MP.
Hope this helps, and thank you for serving.
Best,
Paul
Hello Amy,
This article was great but raised some questions in my mind. I’ve been on the MP for 30 months because of my Lyme disease. I am seeing some positive results slower than expected. For example, my fatigue is as bad today as it was 10 years ago. I went for a walk in the park last night and it felt like I was walking in a foot of water with each step. I remember the exact same feeling 10 years ago when I was walking through a different park when I first got sick. Many MP members are able to eliminate their thyroid medication while I am not even close. If I do I’ll be so fatigued I won’t be able to get out of bed in the morning. The interesting thing is that I rarely get a cold or flu and feel my immune system is fairly strong.
In this article you mentioned variable factors of how a patient will respond to the MP include:
-Patients prior exposure to the antibiotics
-strength (weakness) of the patients own immune system
-species of bacteria present
- concomitant health problems – e.g. kidney failure
-concomitant infections – e.g. fungal, viral
- medications being taken by the patient.
Prior to starting MP I was on large doses of antibiotics from 2002-2006, I did feel herxing but not to the extent I felt on the MP
Here is my question – My Dr. referred me to a kidney specialist this month who did quite a bit of tests. He saw my creatine level was low amongst other things and feels my kidneys are only working at 60% productivity. Do you feel my kidneys are in any way an inhibitor of why I’m not progressing as quickly as I should be? Do you have any thoughts as to whether or not having low kidney production should be a major concern of mine and will this problem eventually correct itself on the MP?
Another side question I have is do you feel that I can still pass my infection on to my children through pathagons during intimacy? My apolgies, I’m having some braing fog today and my writing skills are not up to par. Thank you in advance! JC
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Please be aware that comments or questions about the Marshall Protocol tend to be answered much more quickly at CureMyTh1.org.