11 Feb 2008
Paul W. Ewald is an evolutionary biologist, specializing in the evolution of infectious disease. He received his Ph.D. from the University of Washington, in Zoology, with specialization in Ecology and Evolution. He is currently director of the program in Evolutionary Medicine at the Biology Department of the University of Louisville.

The first recipient of the George R. Burch Fellowship in Theoretic Medicine and Affiliated Sciences, Ewald’s publication of Evolution of Infectious Disease is widely acknowledged by doctors and scientists as a watershed in the emergence of the new discipline of evolutionary medicine. He has been featured in The Atlantic, Newsweek, Discover, and Forbes.
Professor Ewald is also the author of a groundbreaking book, Plague Time; How Stealth Infections Cause Cancers, Heart Disease and other Deadly Ailments.
When we consider the possible causes of disease, it’s important to make sure that at our starting point, we put all categories on the table. I believe the most useful way to do this is to think in terms of three main categories:
Once we have this spectrum of categories in mind we ask, “Have all three areas been investigated?
At this point scientists tend to make an error. They decide that if they have found enough evidence for categories 1 or 3, that category 2 is not playing a role. This is a fundamental problem that has led the medical community to misunderstand the cause of most debilitating chronic diseases.
So, which of the three categories is overlooked? Category 1 certainly isn’t – once scientists figured out the structure of DNA and the nature of mutations they were extremely eager to show their relationship to disease. Category 3 hasn’t been overlooked, largely because of the fact that we can sense environmental causes of disease. We suffer from a stomach ache after eating contaminated food or feel the pain from a sunburn.
But, if we look back at every decade, there has been a lack of research on category 2 relative to its actual importance in causing disease. Our track record shows that we have consistently failed to fully understand the role that pathogens play in causing disease and this trend has continued up until 2008.
There are many examples of how we have continually overlooked the category of infectious disease. I’m not talking about acute infection – researchers were essentially able to work out the mechanisms of acute infection from 1880 to about 1920. I’m talking about chronic infection, and thus the role of pathogens in causing chronic disease.
Take the case of peptic ulcers. The idea that bacteria cause peptic ulcers was first solidified in the 1940s, then independently investigated and solidified again by Marshall and Warren in the 1970s. It took over 20 more years before the relationship was finally accepted by mainstream medicine. Now, when people look back on previous theories about the cause of peptic ulcers they think, “Oh, isn’t it surprising that we didn’t understand the cause for so long!” or “We should have known better!” But when they proceed to hypothesize about the cause of other diseases, they go right back to the dogma. They haven’t learned the lessons from the peptic ulcer story.
Instead, they should think in an opposite fashion. If we find that one disease has an infectious cause, we should learn from that information and seriously consider the same possibility in other diseases.
Think about syphilis. In 1913, it was discovered that the disease resulted from infection with the bacterium Treponema pallidum. Soon, the disease was dubbed the “Great Imitator” because its symptoms often resembled those of other diseases, particularly in the later stages. I think syphilis should be called the “Great Illustrator,” because it’s a disease that imitates a whole spectrum of other diseases. This suggests that we should be actively looking for a pathogenic cause in these other diseases as well – especially since so many illnesses are still considered to be of unknown cause. Back in the day, the psychoses associated with syphilis and schizophrenia were grouped together into a single category of illness. But as soon as syphilis was found to have a bacterial cause, we separated syphilitic insanity from what is now called schizophrenia, and assumed that schizophrenia was not caused by infection. Rather than just separating the two diseases we should have actively pursued the hypothesis that schizophrenia also has an infectious cause. The information we can gain from these kinds of relationships is far more enlightening than any genetic data.
That’s one of the realities of medicine – researchers tend to deny associations. Denial plays a major role as scientists love to hold on to the current dogmatic explanation. This suggests that in order for pathogens to be fully tied to chronic disease we will have to wait until the current powerful people pass away and a sufficient number of young people entering the arena without these vested interests mature into positions of influence, to tip the balance of expert opinion. This is something that Charles Darwin, Max Planck, and Thomas Kuhn all agreed with.
That’s because powerful people tend to hang on to the opinions that made them powerful even if there is no longer sufficient evidence to support their views. It’s a social problem that relates to the weakness of the mind. Human beings didn’t evolve to be scientists. Instead they evolved to be competitive – to grab and hold onto what is theirs. Hence the name calling often observed among the medical community and the resistance among scientists to fund or support ideas other than their own, ideas that question the validity of current dogma.
No. Take schizophrenia again. Evolutionary biologists understand that if an allele (a sequence that codes for a gene) were to code for a disease it would slowly get weeded out of the population, particularly since people who are sick are much less likely to reproduce (especially people with a severe disease like schizophrenia). Yet a person’s chances of getting schizophrenia are 1 in 100. The reality is that faulty genes cannot maintain this frequency. If schizophrenia was a genetic disease, then according to the rules of mathematics, it would only occur in about 1 in every 10,000 people. The current frequency of the disease is just far too high.
Some might try to rationalize the 1 in 100 number by saying that schizophrenia is influenced by environmental factors, but if this were the case the environmental factors would have to be widespread and consistent across much of the world which is highly unlikely. Yes, some populations do have a higher incidence of schizophrenia than others, but that variability is much better explained by the idea that some populations harbor more of the pathogens that cause schizophrenia then others.
This highlights another issue. The fact that illnesses tend to run in families does not mean that only faulty genes are at work. Family members could just be passing each other pathogens. If one member of a twin pair has schizophrenia, there is a 35-60% chance that the other member of the twin pair will have it. However, this may be just a reflection of the fact that both twins were exposed to the same pathogens in the womb.
Pathogens also possess the ability to evolve and adapt at rapid rates, meaning that even if the host acquires a defense against them they can often find away around it. As previously mentioned, genetic disease would gradually be weeded out of the population. But as soon as you hypothesize that a disease has an infectious origin, and that the pathogens causing it can adapt and evolve, it is possible to explain how diseases can be perpetuated indefinitely in quite severe forms.
Yes, it’s possible. We know that some viruses and bacteria mutate and damage DNA. Similarly, the compounds created by the body in order to continually combat pathogens are often potent molecules that can also cause genetic mutations.
Cancer is really a special case of the problems we have discussed. The same dogma has been driving how the disease is viewed for so long. But if people are able to recognize the dogma for what it is, they can take a better look at definitive evidence about the disease. Taking a look at the track record of cancer researchers is a good way to decide whether the consensus view is right or wrong.
Back in 1975, mainstream medicine agreed that about 0.1% of human cancer cases were caused by pathogens. When it came to the rest of cases, their view was that they were probably caused by a combination of inherited predispositions and mutagens. Then in 1985, the percentage of cancer cases they tied to pathogens was 3%, and they continued to make the same argument about the remaining cases. In 1995 the percent of pathogen-induced cancer cases was accepted to be around 10%. Now, we’re at 20%. Still, mainstream medicine contends that the other 80% of cases do not have an infectious cause, but the questions is – do you believe them anymore? In this sense, the clarity of hindsight can help a lot. Between evolutionary instinct and plain common sense we can view the issues of pathogens and cancer much more effectively.
Or, take a disease like atherosclerosis in which noting patterns of infection is unavoidable. There are bacteria in the lesions of people with the disease and all kinds of inflammatory markers. What we need to do is take a step back, divorce ourselves from our predispositions, and look at these ideas together.
Modern medicine has done a poor job looking for clues of continued infection. This may be partly explained by the fact that in many cases, it’s hard to link a pathogen to a disease because the pathogen grows and spreads so gradually. So the time at which a person becomes symptomatic may be years after the onset of infection.
Recognizing these patterns requires thinking broadly and deeply, but medical professionals and researchers have been trained to think narrowly. They’ve tried to follow a model that resembles a NASA undertaking for a great moon mission in which every person brings his or her own particular specialty to the table. But that model doesn’t work for medicine. Instead medical professionals need to work together with a unified theory in mind. But at the moment, they don’t have a unified theory, and without a conceptual model to guide them, researchers are only able to determine risk factors for disease rather than come to an understanding of the overall cause.
Evolutionary biology is the most synthetic area of biology. It asks why things are the way they are, and integrates knowledge of how things work mechanistically. Evolutionary biology promises to be the most synthetic area of medicine for the same reason.
Yes. And the immediate questions researchers should be asking is “What causes inflammation?” One thing that we clearly know causes inflammation is the presence of an infection. So, as soon as I hear the word inflammation I think, “What infectious agents are at play?”
That brings us to the concept of autoimmune disease – the idea that the immune system just “goes crazy.” I think the fact that the concept of autoimmunity was developed in the first place is largely related to the fact that our brains have not evolved to think scientifically. People who have studied disease from their own point of view have recognized that the immune system is extremely important. But as we’ve learned more about the immune system, we’ve realized that it is an extremely complicated system – as complicated as the brain. Just like we can’t look at one type of neuron and infer information about the entire brain, we can’t try to understand the characteristics of only some immune cells and think we understand immune function.
So, over the years, as researchers have been daunted by the complexity of the immune system, it has seemed logical that such a complex entity has the potential to go wrong. Because they are limited by the power of their brains, they tend to simplify the issue and view the immune system in the same way they would view a truck that could break down. There are two problems with this type of thinking. For starters, we can’t trust our intuition that something complex is likely to malfunction. The fact is, the immune system functions just fine in a large proportion of the population. The only logical way to explain the immune activation seen in patients with “autoimmune disease” is to suggest that there is some sort of agent pushing the immune system off balance. This argument is only strengthened by the fact that the same evolutionary forces that would cause a serious disease to be weeded from the population would also cause those people whose immune systems are prone to self-destruction to be eliminated from the population.
The concept of autoimmune disease has progressed to the point that now even researchers who previously dismissed the possibility of infection are accepting the possibility that “autoimmune” disease could be triggered by infection. This is some progress, but it’s not enough. Especially since the concept of autoimmunity encourages doctors to prescribe immunosuppressive steroids to patients. But if persistent infection is involved these steroids may exacerbate the fire by allowing pathogens to spread.
Aging is a super-category. We’ve gradually lumped together more and more symptoms under the category of natural aging. Many of these symptoms are the same as those caused by diseases that surely have an infectious cause. In that sense, you could view much of what we now call aging as an incapacitating illness that leads to a decrease in function. We know that inflammation and the interaction of the immune system with pathogens can destroy tissue. So it’s not surprising that the tissues of a person who harbors a lot of pathogens would age earlier and alter their biological structure earlier in life. I do believe it is inevitable that people will eventually die of old age, but I suspect that this should generally happen when they are 80-100 years old. But we are increasingly seeing signs of aging-related diseases in people who are much younger.
Personally, I believe that we label an illness as psychosomatic when we don’t really know what’s going on with the patient. It’s a last resort diagnosis – a black box. If we knew more about what was causing their symptoms we could address the issue more clearly.
Looking at psychosomatic illness from an evolutionary viewpoint, you could say that those people who might exaggerate how sick they feel in order to gain attention and resources could have an evolutionary advantage. But if that’s the truth, it only accounts for an extremely small percentage of cases. It’s also true that often an illness will have both a psychological and physical component. But just because a psychological component is identified doesn’t mean the physical component should be overlooked. Plus, most mental illnesses are probably the result of infection too. Chronic Fatigue Syndrome is a good example of a disease that up until recently has been dismissed as psychosomatic just because researchers couldn’t figure out the cause. On the contrary, it’s quite a serious illness.
I think the Internet plays an incredibly beneficial role as it can provide information to anybody who is willing to put in the time to learn terminology and information presented in the literature available on the Internet. I believe it will, and already is, changing the patient/doctor relationship and also the relationship of the general public with the government mainly because we can now check up on things and check up on them quickly. I can find information in half an hour rather than spending an entire day at the library – and think about the fact that this is happening all around the country.
Of course, now there is so much information on the Internet that it’s too much for an individual mind to keep up with. Sometimes you have to read quite a bit of literature in order to extract the relevant information. That’s why we need people to team up and share information. What we need is small groups of people poring over information together. In this way they can develop a more thoughtful, broad outlook. This is in contrast to the current medical model in which doctors and researchers are trained to specialize in such a narrow area of knowledge. They know very little about issues outside their area of expertise and have trouble seeing the big picture. Thus, what we need is for the NIH to put money into grants that foster interdisciplinary insights.
I think the peer review system is becoming less important because there are so many other outlets where people can put up information. So I don’t see it as too big of a barrier.
When it comes to pharmaceutical companies, it’s important to recognize that they are very good at some things and very bad at others. What they are good at is product promotion and marketing, and working in innovative ways when the resulting product can bring in lots of money. The problem is the products that make the most money are not necessarily the products that actually help people the most.
Basic economic principles first put forth by Adam Smith show that the free enterprise system does not work well under certain situations. Writing over two hundred years ago, he argued that free enterprise cannot be expected to generate an effective national defense. For modern society, pollution control would be another example. If we want to move in that direction there needs to be a profit driven motive, or we have to get the government to do the things that do not generate sufficient profit. Otherwise, it just won’t happen.
If you think about it, there isn’t very much money to be made off a vaccine because a person uses it once or twice in his or her life and that’s it. Instead, think of the amount of money to be made off a statin when a person is going to take it every day of their life. There’s just not much motive for drug companies to invest in products that are cures or very good preventatives. We don’t have to condemn drug companies, just recognize this role that they are playing in drug development. If we want to develop a drug under a high priority situation that may result in a curative solution we can’t count on the pharmaceutical industry. In cases where the free enterprise system doesn’t result in a situation that may benefit the population the government has to step in and provide funding for the possibility at hand.
Most experts in the health sciences advocate a building-block approach to the problem of causation. They try to understand the workings of disease at the cellular and biochemical levels, in hopes that solutions will eventually emerge. Even among infectious diseases, however, the fundamental achievements have occurred more through the testing of deductive leaps than by building-block induction. What it boils down to is that we need both types of development but we can’t have one without the other. Working incrementally can be great as long as scientists understand the big issues and the larger concepts that need to be guiding their research. But right now we have way too many scientists working in building block mode, missing what’s going on outside the box.
Because it’s not in the textbooks. They are trained to look at a patient and try to match them with something in a textbook. These medical texts don’t consider the preponderence of evidence across the entire spectrum of possible causes of most chronic diseases. The evidence implicating infectious causation tends to be a casualty of this restricted perspective, leading to the result that consideration of infectious causation in medical texts is minimal for chronic diseases of uncertain cause.
So until infectious pathogenesis is accepted to the point that it is in the medical texts taught in medical school, they will continue to consult only the standard operating procedure. If they can’t put a label on the patient’s illness it falls into a bin of “unexplained phenomena” which goes back to what I was saying earlier about psychosomatic illness, since they have a tendency to speak dismissively about what’s in the bin.
The problem is that considering a new pathogenesis or a cause that isn’t in a textbook requires thinking hard about unknown problems. They just don’t have the time or training to think logically and deeply about such issues. This is evidenced by the fact that you can go to five different doctors, get five different explanations for your problem and be recommended five different treatment options.
My interest in evolutionary medicine began in grad school around 1977. I came down with a bad case of diarrhea and was thinking about whether I should treat the symptoms or let the illness run its course. At first it seemed like it was most logical to let the illness run its course because that seemed to be my body’s way of eliminating the pathogen. But then I thought about the fact that the pathogens might be manipulating me. If I expelled them, they might be endowed with an evolutionary advantage that would allow them to persist and infect others. I realized that my intuition couldn’t provide me with the answer. That led me on a long web-like series of connections. The more I started to consider medical problems in the light of evolution the more I realized that some diseases simply cannot be caused in a way they are explained by current dogma. So I’ve tried to look at disease in a balanced way, to put all possibilities on the table, and from there to figure out what’s feasible and what’s not.
22 Responses for "Interview with evolutionary biologist Paul Ewald"
Great Job Amy…as always!!!
Everything just starts to come trogether and make sense…and That is damn good for my brain fogged mind!
So interesting!!! Everything he says confirms the MP and everything that Dr. Marshall has been saying. I wish I had more patience….watching this process unfold so slowly, while so many are suffering is excrutiating.
Thank you again for a great article.
Hi Diana,
I’m glad you enjoyed the interview. I think Dr. Ewald’s work is a great example of how we need to start looking at medicine from new and different perspectives. Dr. Marshall has approached it in a unique way because of his background in biomedicine and obviously his work has led to groundbreaking discoveries. But the medical community continues to look at disease in the same manner, where they are continually blinded by so much consensus-type thinking.
So here we are, in the midst of a pandemic of Th1 disease. I know how you feel – the deep frustration of knowing how to eliminate such a vast array of illnesses and having to deal with a medical community that is so slow to accept new ideas and paradigm shifts. Hence my drive to keep writing for this site, to try to bring together a unified view of the fact that we must accept a bacterial pathogenesis for chronic disease.
Best,
Amy
Much of the rejection of bacteria causing these chronic diseases is due to these bacteria not being seen through standard techniques. Could you do an interview with Lida Mattman, author of “Cell Wall Deficient Forms Stealth Pathogens”? She spoke at the Chicago MP conference a few years ago.
Phil Schoner
Hi Phil,
I really wish that I could interview Lida and at one point I was sure we would connect. Then, I was very sad to learn that since the Chicago Conference her health has severely deteriorated. She’s currently in a nursing home suffering from symptoms of Alzheimer’s disease. I don’t think I could interview her under those conditions.
It’s so sad that a woman who discovered so much of what we know about L-form bacteria is now ill with the very pathogens she was studying. It’s not much of a surprise though, that someone who ended up handling so much L-form bacteria would develop Th1 disease. It’s sad that I lost the chance to interview her by just a few years. Obviously at the time of the Chicago Conference I still could have spoken with her. I’m sure she had much to share that may never be documented.
Yet thought her papers and her excellent textbook on L-form bacteria she has left behind a legacy of information for any researcher who is open-minded enough to take an interest in the subject – which they certainly will in the coming years. I hope that in the future she is regarded as the brilliant and important scientist that she was, and given full credit for her work.
Best,
Amy
Dear Amy,
I must say that Dr. Ewald is dead on in almost everything you have quoted him in the article.
I would only like to disagree with one conclusion:
When Dr. Ewald says that “Category 3 [environmental factors] hasn’t been overlooked, largely because of the fact that we can sense environmental causes of disease. We suffer from a stomach ache after eating contaminated food or feel the pain from a sunburn” he is leaving out another enormous area which is little understood and has as much enormous potential to transform medicine as does the study of micro-organism in chronic diseases.
I have self-educated myself in this area for 30 years, and it is very clear that the pea soup of low dose toxic chemicals that human beings only began living in, less than 200 years ago, has profound evolutionary implications for human health. The interactions between thousands of various toxins humans are routinely exposed to, and which are at detectable levels in the human body are rarely considered in addressing chronic illesses. Further, the interaction between the impact of individual and synergistic effects of chemicals and micro-organisms has also been almost entirely neglected by medical professionals and researchers.
Yet we know that the human body has not had time to make the evolutionary adaptations to even a few of these synthetic chemicals, many of which we do have an inkling can interfere with various bodily processes and the chemicals that our body manufactures naturally. We know that some doses of some toxins kill people rapidly, and other doses of other toxins can kill slowly over time. We know that chronic diseases have rapidly increased, as the rate of exposure to toxic chemicals has exponentially increased in a very short evolutionary period. Yet people do not always feel the impact of these environmental influences, much less are they capable of tracing back long-term symptoms to chronic low dose exposure to, say plasticizers leaching out into the left-over food they stored in it, to cite one obvious example. There are often no obvious immediate symptoms to these low dose chronic exposures. Yet 30 years ago, when I began looking into this, people thought you were crazy if you wanted to avoid exposures to such chemical pollutants. There is a WHO Macedo-award winning study, commissioned by the New Jersy Dept of Health by Nicolas Ashford and Claudia Miller, which begins to skim the surface of these issues, issues which need further investigation. The book is “Chemical Exposures: Low Levels, High Stakes”. There are also a number of other fledgling efforts in this area, too many to mention, which have not been given due attention by the medical profession, including the comprehensive works of Dr. William Rea.
Much of what Dr. Ewald says about the lack of openness to considering pathogens, can also be applied to the enormous denial that lose doses of a myriad of synthetic chemicals in our environment, and their interactions with each other and possibly with micro-organisms inside the human body as well, are adversely affecting human health on a massive scale, and contributing to the epidemics of various chronic illnesses.
Congratualations on another excellent and thought-provoking article Amy!
Leslirae
Hi Leslirae,
You’re right – there are a lot of low grade, man made toxins in our atmosphere. I just read an article called “Our Oceans Are Turning to Plastic – Are We? which was published in Best Life magazine. It describes how there is a plastic dump the size of Texas in the North Pacific Ocean. According to one of the researchers studying how small plastic residues might affect humans, “You could take your serum to a lab now, and they’d find at least 100 industrial chemicals that weren’t around in 1950.”
So I agree with you – it’s a scary prospect. I’m sure these toxins may affect our health, but it’s important to understand that bacteria are the first and foremost cause of a Th1 illness. After that, though, I don’t see why symptoms couldn’t be exacerbated by chemical residues.
I am intrigued though, by the fact that those people to reach the latest stage of the Marshall Protocol feel pretty darn good even though they have obviously been exposed to chemical toxins. It makes me think that having a bacteria-free body, and thus an extremely healthy liver/kidney detox system may be allow people who have completed the MP to deal with microtoxins more effectively.
I do agree with Ewald in the sense that I think the medical community is much more willing to accept microtoxins rather than pathogens as a cause of disease. Yes, we have a lot more research to do on microtoxins, but the idea that toxins may cause diseases like cancer is not considered controversial these days. The idea that cancer is a bacterial illness – now that is very controversial. So researchers working with pathogens are probably still finding it harder to get funding and gain acceptance for their work then those working with microtoxins.
I would also argue that the reason chronic disease has escalated over the past decades is because of the way mainstream doctors treat chronic disease – a rise in vitamin D supplementation, a rise in the use of corticosteroids and other immunosuppressive medications, a rise in the use of the beta lactam antibiotics, which promote the formation of L-form bacteria, a rise in the idea that “tan is in” the the abuse of tanning beds…..
About two years ago I worked for the National Policy Research Council – a think tank that aims to help politicians work more effectively. I was in charge of conducting many interviews at the time, and spoke to the head of the Department of the Environment for almost every state. You might be happy to know that implementing methods to search for microtoxins and the residues of drugs/hormones in the water supply was top on their agendas. I would expect that some of our filtration processes may get more rigorous in the coming years based on these statements. Since dealing with microtoxins was so high on their agenda I wouldn’t say we are in complete denial of their existence.
Of course, no matter what they implement we will still be exposed to many of these microtoxins – my feeling though, as I said above, is that a person with a very healthy body is going to be able to manage these toxins much more effectively than someone with L-form bacteria, VDR blockage, and a compromised ability to detoxify. So the MP is my best hope for fending off these microtoxins. In the meantime though, I hope never to use another plastic bag in my life! (sometimes I have to, but I’m trying my best not to).
Best,
Amy
Dear Amy,
I agree with you that the health of those people whose L-form bacterial load has been significantly reduced skyrockets, and that they are better able to handle the chemical toxin loads.
And the same is true of a lot of things. If you have a high parasite load and one way or another that is dealt with, your health will improve dramatically.
If you have conventional bacterial pnuemonia and a temperature of 106 and you are given antibiotics, you will also find that your health improves dramatically in the course of a few days. That doesn’t mean that you don’t have L-form bacterial problems or that you are not incubating cancer from various toxins, but your health will definitely be better than it was when you were seriously ill with the added problem of the acute pnuemonia.
If you have a liver clogged with toxins and you dramatically detoxify it and the rest of your body at the same time, your health will dramatically improve and you will be better able to fight the cell wall deficient bacteria as well. That doesn’t mean that the mycoplasmas are not still a problem, but it does mean your health will improve.
The point is that the improvement in health you see on people on the MP after several year is testament to the fact that MP is working and that the improvement is likely caused by reducing the load of cell wall deficient bacteria. It does not prove that there are no other influences on human health.
The further point is that the medical profession and western society needs to get out of the dark ages of Western medicine and become more open to the fact that we don’t know everything yet and be more willing to be humble and acknowledge that there is important knowledge that has yet to be discovered which conventional doctors do not have a monopoly on, and that there is a wide body of existing knowledge of health that we can learn from, from other cultures, and that right now, people like Dr. Marshall and many others are working on breakthroughs which have profound implications for human health and their work should be read thoughtfully instead of being reacted to with hostility by those who are actually in complete ignorance about it and are unwilling to learn.
I am happy to hear that the National Policy Research Council is taking seriously some pollutants. But I have seen far too many open minded doctors with no patient complaints ever lodged against them lose their licences to witch-hunts by those Professional bodies who routinely protect with a myriad of patient complaints against them. The reason they lose their licenses is for advocating safe practices that do not involve drugs, surgery or radiation.
So Dr. Marshall is not the only doctor persecuted for being right and helping people. It is a systemic problem in conventional western medicine… and it is killing millions of people.
Hi Leslirae,
I very much agree. For all the talk we hear everyday about how we live in a time of “modern medicine” doctors and researchers have no understanding of what causes of the vast majority of diseases. Meanwhile, the number of patients living with terrible chronic debilitating illnesses who are cast away by doctors and frequently society continues to grow.
We need major, major paradigm shifts to take place – and I agree facing issues such as microtoxins with a serious eye should be a part of these changes.
It’s very difficult to see researchers who break away from current dogma be dismissed and even persecuted. I truly hope that down the road they will get the recognition they deserve.
In a sense, though, this is very exciting time. When the Marshall Protocol becomes mainstream it will transform medicine and we are slowly getting closer and closer to that day. Since the MP appears to work for mental illness, think of all the agony and suffering that may be quelled in that arena as well. Who knows – we may even be headed to a more peaceful world.
I’m so glad that you are passing on Dr. Marshall’s work to others and helping this movement gain momentum.
Best,
Amy
Amy what do you think of Dr. Royal Rife and his research?
(
Did you see this:
http://www.rifevideos.com
???
I have heard of him before, but never studied deeply, just few days ago I watched the documentaries on this site.
I see that Rife shared comon idea as Dr. Cantwell and Dr. Marshall…, but the “circumstances” were not favorable to his research. Too sad end of his story for humanity…
Hello Amy and readers:
Like many people, I can’t help but wonder why there is an epidemic of Th1 inflammation diseases. Maybe the reason or reasons are not so simple.
Yes, we do live in a pea soup of toxins in our modern “civilization” (which is not very civilized in many respects). These toxins put extra stress on the human immune system. This perhaps makes it harder for the immune system to fend off invaders, including the persistent bacteria that result in Th1 inflammation. On the other hand, Amy makes the point that when we get rid of this bacteria from our bodies, the immune system is then better able to handle the toxic pea soup that permeates our modern world. Perhaps there is a vicious cycle here…?
Could it be that in the past two or three generations, large amounts of bacteria (the kind of bacteria that leads to Th1 inflammation) have been introduced to our bodies through various means, such as vaccines and processed foods (e.g. milk)? I really do wonder about all those vaccines that were forced upon most of us in early childhood.
Or, could the rise in Th1 inflammation be caused by the overuse of antibiotics and other medications? These medications include immunosuppressive drugs, birth control pills, and other hormonal supplements prescribed mostly to women. Certain Th1 inflammation illnesses affect more women than men. Hmmm…
Or, could “vitamin” D be largely to blame for the epidemic of Th1 inflammation diseases? It’s possible that the “vitamin” D added to many foods as well as the “vitamin” D in vitamin supplements has thrown the human body out of balance, setting up a scenario for Th1 inflammation.
(In the case of Lyme disease – which I don’t know much about – a tick bite results in Th1 inflammation illness. So in this case, the cause is identifiable, except when people don’t know they have been bitten by a tick.)
These “questions” stem from the above article, comments submitted on the above article, and other articles on this blog. Some of the points I am raising have already been addressed by Amy in previous replies to reader comments.
Ultimately, the question is “why?” That is, what is the underlying reason(s) for the epidemic of T1 inflammation diseases? “Why” is a question I ask far too often in many aspects of life, and sometimes absolute answers are unavailable and we have to live with the unknown and accept the mystery, at least for the time being.
You would think that our bodies would have evolved to the point where we could fend off this insidious bacterial infection. However, evolution is not to blame when we (humanity as a whole) mess with Nature. And we have certainly messed with Nature in a big way, especially messing around with our sophisticated bodies – i.e. overuse of antibiotics, injecting hormones into our bodies, possibly high intake of “vitamin” D, etc.
But, maybe in fact our bodies have not evolved to the point where we can easily fend of the pathogenic bacteria. And maybe the bacteria are in fact being passed from one generation to the next, meaning that some of us are infected from day one. Also, the pathogenic bacteria itself may be adapting and evolving, as mentioned by Dr. Paul Ewald, so that it can continue to thrive in our bodies.
Why? Sigh!
Bethany (CFS)
Hi Bethany,
Well, actually just touched on many of the reasons why I think we are in the midst of an epidemic of Th1 disease.
For starters, the T1 pathogens have been around for a long, long time. The Neolithic Ice Man was said to have died of heart disease and other Th1 diseases. But you are right -over the last century the rate of these diseases has skyrocketed. During this past century we’ve done so many things to aid the survival of these pathogens that Dr. Marshall has commented (and I agree with him) that we will probably look back at these times as the dark ages – a time before we realized that we could kill the pathogens causing so many forms of illness, both physical and mental.
I believe one of the top reasons that L-form bacteria have spread like wildfire is due to the fact that the beta-lactam antibiotics actually cause the transformation of classical bacterial forms into the L-form. So this means that every time a person presents with an acute infection (such as pneumonia) and they are given penicillin or another beta-lactam antibiotic, doctors think their disease is over if the classical forms die. However, each time this happens, some L-form bacteria definitely form that come back and haunt the patient years later. And think about how much we use the beta-lactam antibiotics…..
Next, as you said, the use of immunosuppressive drugs has become so widespread. The worst part about these medications is that they are given to people who already harbor the Th1 pathogens, allowing their infections to literally get out of control. But many supplements that “healthy” people take are also immunosuppressive. We know so little about the effects of supplements and drugs on the immune system, yet it not a stretch to think that when a drug or supplement gives someone an “edge” it might just be slowlng the immune system – since literally all the population is going around with some degree of a bacterial load.
Finally, the addition of vitamin D to the food chain has been a disaster. Marshall’s models show that 25-D starts to suppress the innate immune system around 20 ng/ml, but the accepted “low” range for vitamin D is higher then that level. There is now vitamin D is so many products with the intention of keeping people’s 25-D at least over 40 ng/ml. Now doctors are saying that a healthy 25-D level is over 75 ng/ml. That means that pretty much the entire population is severely immunosuppressed. What a field day for the Th1 pathogens! Then, as more people fall sick with Th1 disease because their immune systems arn’t working up to par, the bacteria easily spread among family members and friends who also have compromised immune systems thanks to the excess levels of vitamin D they are consuming. It’s pretty nuts.
I believe that adding vitamin D to the food chain will without a doubt be called the greatest public health disaster of all time, because it is such a potent secosteroid.
Unfortunately, over the last few decades, tan has also become cool which is a problem. Celebrities are tan, tan is considered healthy, and people don’t think twice about scorching themselves at the beach or elsewhere. The use of tanning salons is going way, way up. And young people are the ones seeking the sun the most, putting them in a position to acquire the Th1 pathogens earlier in life.
I think those are the top four reasons why we are living in the midst of an epidemic of Th1 disease. Of course other factors, many of which you mentioned above are contributing, and there also may be factors we arn’t even aware of yet. But between the four issues I discussed above, that’s already enough to make a lot of people very sick.
Amy
Lest we jump out of one boat with only one oar, and into another of the same type, I would like to suggest that all the categories may have some interaction in diseases.
For example, pathogens have been around for a long time (and are still evolving), but this toxic soup of low dose environmental toxins is rather new, so this has got to be considered as a co-factor along with the pathogens. I will post an abstract that shows just such an interaction. Also, pathogens are well known to be able to exert epigenetic effects on the host, thru gene expression. So, now we have all three categories possibly involved in some diseases.
Here is the abstract:
Clinical & Experimental Immunology
Volume 150 Issue 1 Page 189-197, October 2007
To cite this article: C. Ekerfelt, M. Andersson, A. Olausson, S. Bergström, P. Hultman (2007)
Mercury exposure as a model for deviation of cytokine responses in experimental Lyme arthritis: HgCl2 treatment decreases T helper cell type 1-like responses and arthritis severity but delays eradication of Borrelia burgdorferi in C3H/HeN mice
Clinical & Experimental Immunology 150 (1), 189–197.
doi:10.1111/j.1365-2249.2007.03474.x
ORIGINAL ARTICLE
Mercury exposure as a model for deviation of cytokine responses in experimental Lyme arthritis: HgCl2 treatment decreases T helper cell type 1-like responses and arthritis severity but delays eradication of Borrelia burgdorferi in C3H/HeN mice
* C. Ekerfelt,*+*Division of Clinical Immunology, +Unit of Autoimmunity and
Summary
Lyme borreliosis is a complex infection, where some individuals develop so-called ‘chronic borreliosis’. The pathogenetic mechanisms are unknown, but the type of immune response is probably important for healing. A strong T helper cell type 1 (Th1)-like response has been suggested as crucial for eradication of Borrelia and for avoiding development of chronic disease. Many studies aimed at altering the Th1/Th2 balance in Lyme arthritis employed mice deficient in cytokine genes, but the outcome has not been clear-cut, due possibly to the high redundancy of cytokines.
This study aimed at studying the importance of the Th1/Th2 balance in murine Borrelia arthritis by using the Th2-deviating effect of subtoxic doses of inorganic mercury. Ninety-eight C3H/HeN mice were divided into four groups: Borrelia-infected (Bb), Borrelia-infected exposed to HgCl2 (BbHg), controls exposed to HgCl2 alone and normal controls. Mice were killed on days 3, 16, 44 and 65 post-Borrelia inoculation.
Arthritis severity was evaluated by histology, spirochaetal load determined by Borrelia culture, IgG2a- and IgE-levels analysed by enzyme-linked immunosorbemt assay (ELISA) and cytokine-secreting cells detected by enzyme-linked immunospot (ELISPOT). BbHg mice showed less severe histological arthritis, but delayed eradication of spirochaetes compared to Bb mice, associated with increased levels of IgE (Th2-induced) and decreased levels of IgG2a (Th1-induced), consistent with a Th2-deviation.
Both the numbers of Th1 and Th2 cytokine-secreting cells were reduced in BbHg mice, possibly explained by the fact that numbers of cytokine-secreting cells do not correlate with cytokine concentration. In conclusion, this study supports the hypothesis that a Th1-like response is required for optimal eradication of Borrelia.
Hi Mark,
Those people familiar with the science that forms the backbone of the MP realize that we are all in a boat headed in exactly the right direction. We don’t even need oars because the boat has a motor.
I can’t really see how the article you posted has any relevance to Ewald’s work or Dr. Marshall’s work.
The MP model for chronic disease does put all factors on the table. A large microbiota of chronic ideopathic biofilm and L-form bacteria generate the inflammation and resulting symptoms that cause most inflammatory diseases. The persistent bacterial forms also dysregulate many of the body’s pathways by binding and dysregulating a variety of receptors.
These bacteria do mutate a patient’s DNA. If fact, they create many mutations that can be passed from generation to generation. Some of these mutations may make it easier for pathogens to infect a particular cell type which may then allow new pathogens to infect the person’s cells with greater ease. This phenomenon is described in greater detail in the following article:
http://bacteriality.com/2007/10/31/family/
When it comes to environmental contaminants, it appears that they are not having much of an effect on causing chronic disease, as those people to finish the MP usually report feeling “better than ever” and have no lingering health problems. That is probably because a bacteria free body with a very strong immune system is very effective at dealing with contaminants in a way that a body weakened by bacteria cannot.
Best,
Amy
I’m a huge fan of Ewald and of his view that our pathogenic surroundings need to be given much more weight in our thinking. That said;
1. Ewald left out a catagory of diesease in his calculus – the type which evolves because the harm it causes is outweighed by some other advantage. The most well worn example would be sickle cell anemia, which, when heterozygous, allows a person to survive malaria. Sickle cell anemia is not caused BY a disease, but by a reaction to a disease. Another example of this phenomenon, which doesn’t involve pathogens, is color blindness. If a man is color blind, that means that his mother was probably capable of seeing in 4 channels of color, not just three. Meanwhile, the military uses colorblind men for certain tasks since they rely on different visual cues and are more able to see through camoflage.
2. To reiterate what another poster said; there’s a fair bit of evidence that temporary immunosupression can lead to a chronic inflammatory state. My girlfriend has fibromyalgia, which many related to the MP claim is realted to chronic infection with l-form bacteria. However fibromyalgia is also linked to end-stage Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. So if fibromyalgia really is caused by pathogens, stress may weaken the immune system enough for the infection to establish itself.
Similarly, while the notion that recreational drugs like poppers might CAUSE AIDS has been discredited, HIV seems to establish itself most often in people whose bodies are already immunosuppressed by drugs or pathogens.
3. What hasn’t been mentioned yet (what is, in fact, almost never discussed) is the increase in unprotected sex since the rise of antibiotics, legalization of abortion, and increase in the average age when people marry. As Ewald elucidates in Evolution of Infectious Diseases, such an environment would favor increasingly harmful pathogens. The difficulty of culturing most l-form bacteria strongly suggests that the majority of them are obligate parasites.
Hi Ryan,
Very interesting observations. I agree that there are cases like sickle-cell where the disease offers the host some advantage, but in my opinion, they are few and far between. At least I can’t see any way that having a chronic inflammatory disease like fibromyalgia would offer anyone a survival advantage.
About the fact that any event that weakens the body or the immune system can allow people to more easily acquire the microbiota of chronic L-form and biofilm bacteria at the heart of inflammatory disease (collectively called the Th1 pathogens), I absolutely agree. Stress, lack of sleep, any drug that weakens the body (and particularly immune function!) will not doubt make it harder for the body to effectively fight the pathogens that cause chronic disease. I have definitely heard stories of people developing stronger symptoms after a car accident or a death in the family which certainly correlates with stress.
However at the moment I think most mainstream doctors peg stress as the CAUSE of many of these diseases, when in my opinion, it is an exacerbating factor. A person could be serious stressed out, but if they didn’t come in contact with the Th1 pathogens, I don’t think they would develop an inflammatory disease.
In your girlfriends case, I’m sure her experience with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder put her body in a state that made it much easier to acquire the Th1 pathogens that cause fibromyalgia. Still, she probably harbored Th1 pathogens even before the fibromyalgia symptoms seeing as they are probably what caused her to develop the stress disorder. After all, as 1,25-D rises as a result of the inflammation and VDR blockage generated by the Th1 pathogens, it starts to displace metabolites from the nuclear receptors that control the body’s hormones. The adrenal receptor is definitely affected, and the negative impact of excess 1,25-D on the adrenal receptor could have cause your girlfriend to suffer from such severe stress in the first place.
It’s true that people are having sex at much younger ages and with more partners. I agree that this absolutely fosters the spread of the Th1 pathogens. They can survive in the sperm can definitely be transmitted through intercourse. So it’s quite easy for a young person who has a lot of sexual partners to pick up many different varieties of the Th1 pathogens.
Best,
Amy
Well thanks this is a very interesting science report but I still have an quick few questions before I can fully understand Ewalds work. Such daily salary, typical work days, job outlook, how Ewald got into the director position he is today and specific attributes Ewald needed to get in this field of science? Oh and one more thing is how long has Ewald worked at the Biology Department of the University of Lousiville? If you have these anwers to these questions I would like to know them the next chance you get to it. Thanks.
Hi David,
I’m glad you found the interview interesting. Unfortunately, I don’t have the detailed information you are requesting. I would suggest calling up the University of Louisville in order to find out how long Dr. Ewald has been on their staff.
As for his salary etc, that is private information that I certainly don’t have. How did he get into his field of science? In my opinion because he is an extremely bright thinker and an excellent scientist – one who is able to approach disease from a novel viewpoint. He was certainly aided by a PhD education.
Sorry I can’t be of more help,
Amy
Hi Amy,
Thanks to both you and Paul Ewald for the great interview and information. As a result I just finished his book: “Plague Time How Stealth Infections Cause Cancer, Heart Disease, and Other Deadly Ailments”, and can recommend it as five stars.
It adds more support to the idea that those of us who have been diagnosed with an idiopathic chronic disease can find a cure with the Marshall Protocol.
However, it leaves open the question as to why the medical community essentially ignored the possibility of infection as the cause for many chronic illnesses from the 1950’s through to the 1980’s. The groundwork for infectious causes was established and then it was just ignored. Over thirty years seems like an incredible lost opportunity!
I hope all is going well with your efforts toward grad school but want say your articles and interviews are greatly missed.
Gene
Hi Gene,
It’s good to hear from you. I think I’m finally seeing a light at the end of the tunnel when it comes to my grad school applications. Next in line, I have to write two papers based on my Porto presentation. Hopefully then I can get back to Bacteriality.
I wish I had more time, because I’d love to read Dr. Ewald’s book as well. The question of why bacteria were essentially ignored, particularly during the decades you mentioned, is one I think about often.
I think there may have been a certain degree of denial among the mainstream medical community who wanted to think that the discovery of penicillin and other antibiotics had stopped bacteria in their tracks once and for all.
I chalk a lot of it up to the illusion of accomplishment. And then there was the shiny new toy, genetics, which led people on a different track of thinking entirely.
I still think that, in the future, people will look back into the science from a generation ago and ask why we didn’t capitalize upon the earlier research.
I might actually get the chance to meet Dr. Ewald next week, because he’s lecturing at Cornell, which is very near to where I live. I’ll let you know if he says anything of great interest.
Best,
Amy
yeah i liked the interview well you see i am a student i want to be a biologist when i grow up and this realy helps me believe that i can be what i want to be and makes me want to persue it more as i grow older so thanks alot you may not know me but you have helped me in a big step of my llife now i know what i want to be when i get older and in my heart i know i can do no matter what anbody does or says nothing can stand in my way now and thats why i am thanking you
thanks always
sierra
Hi Sierra,
This is Amy. I write the articles for this site and interviewed Dr. Ewald. I’m very glad that you found his interview inspirational. It’s true – I believe you can reach your goal if you work with passion and integrity.
Good luck!
Amy
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Please be aware that comments or questions about the Marshall Protocol tend to be answered much more quickly at CureMyTh1.org.