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	<title>Comments on: Mysterious side effects or bacterial death?</title>
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	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 04:08:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Amy Proal</title>
		<link>http://bacteriality.com/2008/03/01/statin/comment-page-1/#comment-12581</link>
		<dc:creator>Amy Proal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 23:50:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bacteriality.com/?p=210#comment-12581</guid>
		<description>Hi GinORL,

The statin side effects being caused by the Th1 pathogens is directly related to the fact that the Th1 pathogens are implicated in nearly all inflammatory diseases including cancers.

We hypothesize that the differences in cancers seen in identical twins is due, not to their common genetic heritage, but the pathogens they've encountered over their lifetime. While the genes are the same, the pathogens are different and thus the discrepancy in incidence of cancer.

You might want to take a look at my &lt;a href="http://bacteriality.com/2008/02/11/ewald/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Paul Ewald interview&lt;/a&gt; who discusses, why from an evolutionary perspective, it only makes sense that pathogens rather than faulty genes cause inflammatory disease such as cancer. He has also looked at identical twins and come to the conclusion that differences in pathogen load causes one twin to develop different diseases than another. &lt;a href="http://bacteriality.com/2007/09/11/cantwell/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Here&lt;/a&gt; is an interview with Alan Cantwell who shows some of the bacteria caused in cancer patients. 

Amy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi GinORL,</p>
<p>The statin side effects being caused by the Th1 pathogens is directly related to the fact that the Th1 pathogens are implicated in nearly all inflammatory diseases including cancers.</p>
<p>We hypothesize that the differences in cancers seen in identical twins is due, not to their common genetic heritage, but the pathogens they&#8217;ve encountered over their lifetime. While the genes are the same, the pathogens are different and thus the discrepancy in incidence of cancer.</p>
<p>You might want to take a look at my <a href="http://bacteriality.com/2008/02/11/ewald/"  rel="nofollow">Paul Ewald interview</a> who discusses, why from an evolutionary perspective, it only makes sense that pathogens rather than faulty genes cause inflammatory disease such as cancer. He has also looked at identical twins and come to the conclusion that differences in pathogen load causes one twin to develop different diseases than another. <a href="http://bacteriality.com/2007/09/11/cantwell/"  rel="nofollow">Here</a> is an interview with Alan Cantwell who shows some of the bacteria caused in cancer patients. </p>
<p>Amy</p>
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		<title>By: GinORL</title>
		<link>http://bacteriality.com/2008/03/01/statin/comment-page-1/#comment-12567</link>
		<dc:creator>GinORL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 06:23:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bacteriality.com/?p=210#comment-12567</guid>
		<description>With so much genetic research going on, its still a mystery why one identical twin(with same environment and diet) can get a disease such as cancer while the other doesnt. When you said Th1 disease could explain the statin side affects, it made me wonder if it could help explain this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With so much genetic research going on, its still a mystery why one identical twin(with same environment and diet) can get a disease such as cancer while the other doesnt. When you said Th1 disease could explain the statin side affects, it made me wonder if it could help explain this.</p>
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		<title>By: Amy Proal</title>
		<link>http://bacteriality.com/2008/03/01/statin/comment-page-1/#comment-7899</link>
		<dc:creator>Amy Proal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 22:45:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bacteriality.com/?p=210#comment-7899</guid>
		<description>Hi Phil,

That, in my eyes is a very insightful observation, and one that crossed my mind as well while reading the reports of cognitive loss in women on statins. Could the reported side-effects of statins really just be immunopathology (for the most part)?

At this point essentially no research has been done that addresses the effects of statins on the nuclear receptors (except Marshall’s) so it’s hard to know. But one thing I have noticed is that some people seem to be much more impacted by what are being called the side effects of statins than other people. Could it it be that people who harbor more Th1 pathogens are the ones to note greater side effects from statins? Wouldn’t it be great if more studies investigated that possibility?

A researcher named Uffe Ravnskov, published a comment in the British Medical Journal about the recent IDEAL trial, which compared patients taking the statin simvastatin to patients taking the statin atorvastatin. The researchers found that almost 90% of participants in both groups had side effects. Half were considered serious. Well, I’d say at least 90% of the older adults usually prescribed statins have accumulated enough Th1 pathogens for the drugs to cause them to experience immunopathology and that’s quite a heavy load of side effects for people taking statins to endure.

Read this article by Ravnskov, which describes the top side effects observed among patients taking statins. They sound very similar to the symptoms patients on the MP report as a result of immunopathology.

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/332/7553/1330?ijkey=XhTeJopzPkacsS2&#038;keytype=ref

Too bad it all has to be speculative at this point. Each statin is so different in terms of what nuclear receptors it binds that we cannot even generalize about them as a class. All I know is that something fishy is going on, and that there are more to statins then meets the eye.

Best,

Amy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Phil,</p>
<p>That, in my eyes is a very insightful observation, and one that crossed my mind as well while reading the reports of cognitive loss in women on statins. Could the reported side-effects of statins really just be immunopathology (for the most part)?</p>
<p>At this point essentially no research has been done that addresses the effects of statins on the nuclear receptors (except Marshall’s) so it’s hard to know. But one thing I have noticed is that some people seem to be much more impacted by what are being called the side effects of statins than other people. Could it it be that people who harbor more Th1 pathogens are the ones to note greater side effects from statins? Wouldn’t it be great if more studies investigated that possibility?</p>
<p>A researcher named Uffe Ravnskov, published a comment in the British Medical Journal about the recent IDEAL trial, which compared patients taking the statin simvastatin to patients taking the statin atorvastatin. The researchers found that almost 90% of participants in both groups had side effects. Half were considered serious. Well, I’d say at least 90% of the older adults usually prescribed statins have accumulated enough Th1 pathogens for the drugs to cause them to experience immunopathology and that’s quite a heavy load of side effects for people taking statins to endure.</p>
<p>Read this article by Ravnskov, which describes the top side effects observed among patients taking statins. They sound very similar to the symptoms patients on the MP report as a result of immunopathology.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/332/7553/1330?ijkey=XhTeJopzPkacsS2&#038;keytype=ref" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('a/www.bmj.com');" rel="nofollow">http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/332/7553/1330?ijkey=XhTeJopzPkacsS2&#038;keytype=ref</a></p>
<p>Too bad it all has to be speculative at this point. Each statin is so different in terms of what nuclear receptors it binds that we cannot even generalize about them as a class. All I know is that something fishy is going on, and that there are more to statins then meets the eye.</p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p>Amy</p>
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		<title>By: Phil Schoner</title>
		<link>http://bacteriality.com/2008/03/01/statin/comment-page-1/#comment-7898</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Schoner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 22:44:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bacteriality.com/?p=210#comment-7898</guid>
		<description>Hi Amy,

Just read your March 1 piece on the side effects of the statins. You (correctly, in my view) hypothesize the brain fog side effect of Lipitor as bacterial die off of pathogens in the brain. This, according to the data, is the #2 side effect, second only to muscle soreness.

Why limit our scope to brain fog? Could we not hypothesize the muscle soreness as being the result of bacteria die off there (Fibromyalgia)? This would give us the top 2 “side effects”, both explained by the MP revelation.

So, you know where I’m going here, what are the #3, #4, etc. most common “side effects” of these medications? Do they fit into the autoimmune disease family of chronic diseases?

Do you plan to include this information in your upcoming presentation with Trevor?

Phil</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Amy,</p>
<p>Just read your March 1 piece on the side effects of the statins. You (correctly, in my view) hypothesize the brain fog side effect of Lipitor as bacterial die off of pathogens in the brain. This, according to the data, is the #2 side effect, second only to muscle soreness.</p>
<p>Why limit our scope to brain fog? Could we not hypothesize the muscle soreness as being the result of bacteria die off there (Fibromyalgia)? This would give us the top 2 “side effects”, both explained by the MP revelation.</p>
<p>So, you know where I’m going here, what are the #3, #4, etc. most common “side effects” of these medications? Do they fit into the autoimmune disease family of chronic diseases?</p>
<p>Do you plan to include this information in your upcoming presentation with Trevor?</p>
<p>Phil</p>
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