13 Apr 2008
Patients with diabetic neuropathy may not notice minor injuries due to loss of feeling in their lower extremities. Since the Vitamin D Receptor is inactivated by bacterial ligands, a small cut or sore can become infected, and flare into a limb- or life-threatening condition in as little as three days. These wounds are so difficult to heal that most of medicine considers them a lost cause and treats them with amputation. Amputations are often considered to be the beginning of the end for patients with diabetes.
70% of diabetics who undergo an amputation die within five years due to the stress placed on their heart from their altered circulatory system. During those five years they are likely to have more amputations and to rate their quality of life worse than cancer patients, according to some studies.
Nationally, an estimated 82,000 people with diabetes had lower-limb amputations in 2002, according to the Centers for Disease Control. But thanks to a doctor at the Southwest Regional Wound Care Center in Lubbock, Texas, who has teamed up with researchers from Montana State University’s Center for Biofilm Engineering, this situation is changing. After sending samples of the sludge on his patient’s wounds to the Center, Dr. Randall Wolcott was informed that his samples were largely composed of bacterial biofilms.
This discovery eventually led to a paper on the findings published in the October issue of Wound Repair and Regeneration, an important step in convincing the medical community of biofilms’ importance in chronic wounds.
In the meantime, with the help of other scientists, Wolcott created a series of treatments that allow him to successfully kill the biofilm bacteria that have taken over his patients’ wounds, saving most of them from the horrors of amputation.
Before treating the biofilms on his patients’ wounds, Wolcott admitted patients for an estimated 10 to 15 amputations a month. Now, he’s gone months without one of his patients receiving an amputation. He can confidently look patients in the eye and say he’s 80% certain that their wound is going to heal.
Since patients with diabetes and a host of inflammatory diseases are also killing biofilm bacteria thanks to the Marshall Protocol, Dr. Wolcott’s work is yet another wake-up call as to the massive role these communities of bacteria play in causing all stages of chronic disease. I was lucky enough to speak with Dr. Wolcott and his laboratory research coordinator, Dan Rhoads. We spoke about their work, the importance of biofilm research, and the characteristics of biofilms in general.
Well, that’s a big question but I’ll do my best! Biofilms have been around for at least 3 million years. They are essentially how organisms protect themselves from environmental attack - from chemicals, phages (viruses that infect bacteria), UV light, or other challenges. We now understand that early on, bacteria learned to act as a community. By doing so, they allowed their existence to become much more secure. When bacteria first started to be studied about 150 years ago, the idea of a bacterial biofilm was simply too complex for scientists at the time to grasp. Consequently, early microbiologists were only able to study single bacterial organisms, one at a time.
However, today we have an array of new molecular tools that have opened up a whole new world when it comes to understanding how bacteria survive. We now realize that bacteria are hardly ever found individually (in what is referred to as a planktonic state), but instead frequently join communities. These communities are then able to secrete substances that allow them to grab substances from the surrounding environment in order to create a matrix that protects all the bacteria inside.
Planktonic bacteria produce certain proteins, but once they join a biofilm, the biofilm community expresses vastly different proteins and genes. For example, studies have shown that when a single bacterium becomes part of a biofilm the expression of over 800 genes can change.
When a bacterium is in its planktonic state (on its own), it’s generally able to be cultured in a laboratory. It can also usually be killed by antibiotics. But since biofilms are entities that form under specific conditions in the human body, it is often difficult or impossible to grow them in a laboratory setting. They can no longer be killed by the standard high-dose antibiotics that easily target most single, planktonic bacteria because the community works to protect its members.
So planktonic bacteria and biofilms are as different as caterpillars and butterflies. The organisms have the same genotype, but totally different phenotypes.
I believe that they could be. Once bacteria have joined into biofilm communities, they can no longer be effectively targeted by the immune system. This means that after a biofilm is created, it persists as a chronic infection. Like patients who suffer from chronic inflammatory disease, people with biofilm infections find that high-dose antibiotics or steroids may offer them temporary relief, yet their infection never actually goes away.
Dan and I have been reading several review articles that link autoimmune disease to chronic inflammation, and the more we’ve read, the clearer it’s become that chronic inflammation is a result of bacterial infection. So we think there is a clear link between chronic inflammatory diseases and bacteria, and when we think, “chronic inflammation” we believe we are typically dealing with biofilm infections.
I attended a lecture about biofilms in 2002 which piqued my interest in the subject. Then I used Google to search for further information on biofilms and came upon the Montana State University’s Center for Biofilm Engineering - the place that is, in my opinion, the keeper of all knowledge about biofilms. I called them and told them about what I was observing on the wounds of my diabetic patients. I highly suspected that much of the sludge that I was removing from the wounds was biofilm. The center agreed to work with our office, and we proceeded to send them 50 samples of material scraped off our patients’ chronic wounds. Their molecular techniques confirmed that the majority of the samples did contain bacterial biofilms.
At this point, let me pause to say that diabetic foot ulcers kill tens of thousands of people. Over 100,000 limb amputations happen every year because of infected wounds. The suffering is tremendous and, if the infection from a wound spreads or if the limb is amputated, the patient has a high risk of death. So finding a way to quell the bacterial infections and to heal diabetic wounds is a matter of life or death. So when we realized that we had discovered a previously unrecognized bacterial cause that explains the chronicity of diabetic wounds - wounds that cause patients to lose their limbs - we went after the whole hog.
First we use diagnostic tools to determine that biofilms are indeed present on the wound. The techniques also help us identify the species of bacteria in a particular biofilm.
Well, now that you’ve brought that up, let me address the question now. The agar cultures that most scientists still use today in order to grow bacteria in the lab are 150 years old. A century ago, Robert Koch first discovered that planktonic bacteria could grow on a plate of agar. He used agar because you can manipulate the plate, scrape out the contents, thin out the contents enough, and finally end up with just one single bacterial species growing on the plate. Koch is the founding father of medical microbiology, and we are now standing on his shoulders. However, our understanding of science and medicine has changed a lot in the last century. Based on his pure-culture techniques, he created a series of postulates which state that only one single species of bacteria can cause any one disease. His postulates also state that a disease pathogenesis can only be considered legitimate if the single bacterium connected to the disease can again be isolated alone on an agar plate.
Of course, Koch did not isolate bacteria and try to grow them on a medium that wasn’t agar. This is because if he did - let’s say he had tried to grow a bacterial species on a potato or an egg - the single bacterium would have surely congregated with other bacteria in the environment to form a biofilm - a biofilm that Koch could not isolate and study. So growing bacteria on anything besides an agar plate meant dealing with a situation that was too difficult for Koch to understand. So it seems he chose not to deal with such matters.
Unfortunately, Koch’s postulates caught on among other scientists and eventually became the rule of thumb for growing bacteria and accepting organisms as disease-causing agents. Agar was, and still is seen by many, as the only appropriate bacterial growth medium. Even today, doctors still rigorously adhere to Koch’s postulates, which I believe has significantly impeded their ability to study and understand how bacteria actually survive and cause disease in the body where they are seldom found as single entities.
Of course, growing some strains on agar has helped us better understand diseases such as strep throat, but we’ve pretty much knocked such diseases out. What we are only starting to realize today is that at least 80% of all the infections we treat are caused by biofilm bacteria, not planktonic bacteria. Now the playing field has changed. We’ve taken care of the planktonic bacteria that cause infections. Now we need to start treating polymicrobial diseases - those caused by combinations of bacteria. Continuing to culture on agar and adhering to Koch’s postulates is going to hinder that line of research because it impairs us from looking at the real thing, or what actually happens in the body. In the body, bacteria group together in communities. Changing the way we look at infection will require a paradigm shift in the way doctors think about bacterial populations and the potential of biofilm bacteria to cause disease.
Happily, PCR [polymerase chain reaction] has allowed us to detect many of the bacteria in the biofilms we have studied. There are also many other molecular tools that exist or are being created that will allow for better detection of biofilm bacteria and bacteria in general. Once our team started using some of these sensitive, DNA-based technologies to identify the composition of bacteria in wound biofilms, we detected hundreds of different species, most of which would never grow on an agar plate. And every time we run the tests over again, it seems like we come across even more sequences of DNA that indicate the existence of new pathogens. So, the more we use these molecular diagnostic tools, the more we are realizing what highly diverse populations are inside wound biofilms.
Consider this. In one of our latest studies, we found that it is common for at least 10 bacterial species to comprise at least 1% of each wound’s microbiota. And there were over 40 different species of bacteria that comprised at least 1% of the population in one sample or another. When you look deeper at that 1%, you see that there can be 40, 50, 60 species of bacteria on every wound - an incredible amount of diversity.
Our next step is to determine which of the bacteria we have identified are important and which are not? Perhaps it will turn out that all species detected are important contributors to the virulence of each biofilm, or maybe we will discover that some are key species that cause more harm than others. By continuing to identify the bacterial species in the biofilms of as many of our patients’ wounds as possible, we also hope to determine possible correlations between the component bacterial species in the biofilm population and wounds’ severity. For example, the existence of some species may be found on wounds that are more difficult to treat. Based on this information we may decide to treat different wounds in different ways.
There are a lot of people in the biofilm community who argue about the importance of particular species of biofilm bacteria, and many different research groups, each of which usually has its own opinion on which bacteria in a biofilm may be causing more harm than others. But our stance is that all the bacteria in a biofilm are important because they may act synergistically. Biofilms represent entire ecosystems, just like a forest. A forest isn’t made up of just squirrels, or just trees. Rather, all the entities that make up a forest work together and all are important to the survival of the community.
This brings me to the concept of functional equivalence - a phenomenon that explains why biofilms are able to resist so many sources of stress. Let’s say a single bacterial species such as Staphylococcus aureus is floating around as a single entity. It can be easily identified and attacked by the immune system. Similarly, if it attaches to a surface and starts to form a protective protein matrix around itself - a biofilm - the biofilm is still relatively easy to break down because Staphylococcus aureus has limited defense mechanisms on its own.
But lets say that when Staphylococcus aureus starts to form a biofilm, 10 other nearby bacteria develop the ability to attach to the biofilm as well. Now, if the biofilm is attacked again (by the immune system or other chemicals) it will be much harder to break down. That’s because each different species of bacteria in the biofilm possesses its own characteristics and its own strengths to combat the attack. If one species goes down, four others may still be able to fight and remain functional. A different form of challenge may take down those four species, but then some of the species that were not as effective against the first challenge may rise up and have the capability to deal with the new attack. I think this phenomenon - functional equivalence - is a very, very, important concept in chronic inflammatory infection.
Functional equivalence has been documented in vaginal biofilms. Most vaginal biofilms seem to be composed of only one species of bacteria called Lactobacillus. These biofilms adjust the vaginal environment so that it has a pH of around 4.5, a pH that is most conducive to their survival and the woman’s good health. But it has been found that functionally equivalent biofilms develop that mimic these Lactobacillus biofilms. In the functionally equivalent biofilms, subgroups of different bacterial species come together and interact in order to allow the environment to create the same acidic environment. The difference is that the functionally equivalent biofilms, composed of many different species of bacteria, can perform similarly to the lactobacillus biofilm. These two genotypically different biofilms and are phenotypically equivalent. They are functional equivalents.
The same thing happens in wound biofilms. We see some that are predominantly colonized by single, well-known pathogens. But then we also see clinically similar biofilms made up of many different species of bacteria, and it is usually these diverse biofilms that display interesting growth patterns, interesting characteristics, and probably the best survival mechanisms.
We don’t know, although Dan and I have had several conversations about it. It’s mostly conjecture at the moment. We do know that a delayed immune response is what allows wound biofilms to become established. When wound biofilms start to form, they do so very quickly. Sometimes, they can even be detected after 20 minutes of growth. In other words, bacteria begin to form biofilms as soon as possible. If the immune system of people with diabetes were working up to par, they would be able to delay or retard such quick establishment of the biofilm, which is what a healthly individual can do.
Yes, most of our patients’ wounds heal by using various treatments to wear away at the biofilms that cover them. These treatments include putting lactoferrin and xylitol on the wound. Lactoferrin occurs naturally in tears, mucus and breast milk and appears to attack the bacteria from multiple angles. It is used commercially in meat packing plants to prevent biofilms from growing on carcasses. Xylitol occurs in fruits, vegetables and other plants. It is also produced as part of normal human metabolism. It is used in toothpaste and chewing gum because of its anti-biofilm properties.
An invaluable first step to treating a wound is debridement, or scraping the biofilm — a yellow-greenish sludge — along with dead tissue off the top of the wound with a curette. For some patients, this can be painful even with an anesthetic. Others feel nothing as diabetes has destroyed the nerve endings in their feet and legs. We also use five hyperbaric chambers where patients spend hours in a super-oxygenated environment that’s good for healthy tissue and bad for biofilms. We also use an arsenal of antibiotics and a new lipid-based gel. We recently finished a study in which we used a bacteriophage (viruses that infect bacteria) cocktail to fight the biofilms.
I don’t mean to sound arrogant, but we know we’re right. We know that diabetic wounds are covered in biofilms and that it is biofilm growth that causes them to deteriorate to the point where most other doctors usually just cut them off. Once we realized that our patients’ wounds were covered with biofilm bacteria, we just knew, “This is it!” So we intend to spread the word about our discoveries ASAP. There are just a drastic number of medical issues that stem from biofilm infection. 500,000 people suffer from sinus infections caused by biofilms ever year. There are dozens and dozens of chronic infections that are biofilm related - infections that are now left uncured and thus force people to have heart valves put in, or lead to the removal of entire colons, or lead to tubes in the ears - all kinds of things. It’s bad, and we need a different answer to the way we treat so many conditions.
Yet we are still often met with skepticism. I try to take the approach that nothing is fun if it isn’t controversial. Once the presence of biofilms on diabetic wounds is accepted as truth, the excitement and ambition of working in the area will dwindle. What we want now is confrontation. We want to push our ideas. It’s up to us to prove this is the real thing. It’s a vetting process, but we can win.
What we do need is for researchers and doctors to be open minded. Instead of brushing us off, they need to look at the evidence we are presenting, absorb it, and at least argue with it if they think it’s wrong. When it comes to chronic biofilm infections, we are dealing with life and death situations, so it’s important that others take note of the facts and reasonable arguments that are currently on the table.
Well, when diabetic patients develop an infected wound that causes a limb to turn black, the trauma serves as a major wake-up call. Many of our patients start taking their illness much more seriously. Some buy insulin pumps. Others are careful to buy special diabetic shoes that offer better foot care, or finally make regular visits to their podiatrist to have difficult-to-cut nails sawed off. All these measures reduce the likelihood that they will develop another wound.
We do realize that even when we effectively save a patient’s wound, our patients are still at risk for new wounds because they are immunocompromised. However, when a patient comes in with a wound on one limb we can demonstrate that the same comorbidities are present in the other limb as well, but it does not have a wound. The other limb appears to be intact and generally healthy. If we can work to heal the wounded limb, it should be just as healthy as the patient’s unwounded limb.
But yes, we do have patients that we have treated once for a wound who come back two or three years later with another wound. The good thing is that, based on their first experience, these patients know to come see us as quickly as possible. The sooner we can treat the wound the less likely it is that the infection will spread to the bone where it is much harder to manage.
Oh, don’t get me started! Here’s my favorite example. I went to a biofilm conference in 2005. The first speech I heard was given by researchers from Proctor and Gamble. They had developed Compound 227 that works to prevent biofilm growth in the mouth and thus prevent the accumulation of dental plaque. They had literally spent millions and million of dollars on this research, just tremendous amounts of money so that they could use any discoveries to create a more effective toothpaste. Others spend millions to identify chemicals that can better remove and prevent biofilms that often accumulate on toilets—you know, those ugly rings.
The presentation that followed the dental and industrial presentations was about biofilms and medicine. There was next to nothing to report and practically no spending whatsoever in the area. I came away understanding that right now we are spending way more money on preventing biofilm growth on teeth and toilets than on finding ways to effectively treat the dozens of different serious (many life or death) medical conditions that result from biofilm infection.
Well, as we’ve moved forward with our work, we’ve taken our share of hits from all different types of regulatory agencies as well as funding agencies. So for some doctors, it may seem like this kind of scrutiny is not worth the extra hassle.
But I feel many other doctors care. They are tired of telling their patients, “That’s just the way it is. I can’t make you better,” but often they don’t know how to get started. For example, a physician from England recently came to visit the clinic. She is interested in starting to treat the biofilms that she encounters most often: chronic and recurring bladder infections. However, in order to take this new approach, she is required to begin to work more independently from the National Health Service.
I take it you are familiar with evidence-based medicine? It’s the increasingly accepted approach for making clinical decisions about how to treat a patient. Basically, doctors are trained to make a decision based on the most current evidence derived from research. But what such thinking boils down to is that I am supposed to do the same thing that has always been done - to treat my patient in the conventional manner - just because it’s become the most popular approach. However, when it comes to chronic wound biofilms, we are in the midst of a crisis - what has been done and is accepted as the standard treatment doesn’t work and doesn’t meet the needs of the patient.
Thus, evidence-based medicine totally regulates against innovation. Essentially doctors suffer if they step away from mainstream thinking. Sure, there are charlatans out there who are trying to sell us treatments that don’t work, but there are many good therapies that are not used because they are unconventional. It is only by considering new treatment options that we can progress.
We know without a doubt that chronic diabetic wounds can be saved if the biofilm bacteria that cover them are eliminated. So we are simply unwilling to use a control group as guinea pigs when we know we’ve got the methods to save most of their limbs as well. Granted, we are using some medications for off-label purposes, but they are all approved by the FDA. This is not just experimental stuff. We know that what we are doing is right for the patient. So we simply refuse to do a study where the control group is not treated. The only double-blinded trial we’ve done tested the effect of bacteriophages on wound biofilms, but in that case, the control group still got treated with everything else in our arsenal except the bacteriophages.
We hope we can come to a compromise. We have plenty of data, and even though it’s retrospective, it’s still very valuable. So we hope that the medical community will take this evidence as proof that we are doing the right thing, in lieu of a blinded trial. Right now, rather than focusing on a blinded trial, we are simply focusing on what is best for the patient. We are trying to heal as many patients’ wounds as possible. That’s our main priority - treating patients right here and right now. If you take time to look at the retrospective evidence, it is solid. Our patients do very well.
Only from what you’ve just told us, but we plan to investigate it further. The idea of pulsed antibiotics makes a lot of sense - essentially it may allow the antibiotics to target the growing or regenerating cells in the biofilm, which were previously persister cells. Please send us more information.
Me: Great! I think that the Marshall pathogenesis will help you better understand why the diabetic patients you treat are so immunocompromised. As you know, we believe that the entire pathogenesis of diabetes is caused by L-form and biofilm bacteria, and that these bacteria are able to create substances that slow the Vitamin D Receptor and subsequently the activity of the innate immune system. Thus, we believe that restoring the competence of the Vitamin D Receptor is key to recovery to inflammatory disease. Activating the VDR, or putting your patients on the full Marshall Protocol, could help restore their innate immune function, which may go a long way in preventing them from developing new infected wounds. At least that’s my take!
The following is an excerpt taken directly from an article on the Montana State University’s Center for Biofilm Engineering website. It describes the experience of just one of Dr. Wolcott’s patients.
Initially, Montemayor ignored the bruise. A diabetic, Montemayor has poor blood circulation in his lower legs and feet. Three days later, his toe was discolored and he limped with discomfort. He went to an emergency room.
Emergency room physicians told Montemayor his foot was severely infected and he must be admitted. He spent the next 12 days in the hospital. When his infection didn’t respond to treatment, Montemayor’s physicians told him his foot should be amputated, or he risked losing his entire leg, and possibly his life.
“First they said it would be the top of my foot, then half of my foot, then my whole foot,” Montemayor said. “They kept telling me I needed to set a date and time for my amputation. Believe me, if it wasn’t for the power of prayer I don’t think I’d have gotten through this.”
Montemayor sought a second opinion. The next day, two staff members from Wolcott’s center visited.
“I’ll never forget that visit,” Montemayor said. “One of the girls said ‘We’ve seen worse. We suggest you do not get this amputated. We can treat this.’”
It was Christmas Eve.
Montemayor took their advice and began nearly a year’s worth of treatments at Wolcott’s clinic on Christmas Day. Today, he walks on both feet.
“The clinic staff said they were going to do their best and they did,” Montemayor said. “I’m blessed to be walking.”
“It’s hard to relive that experience in the hospital,” he said. “At the time I was thinking about my personal life. I was thinking how this would affect me meeting someone, or having a relationship with someone. Is she going to accept and support me? Is she going to be able to walk next to me and accept that I have a prosthetic limb?
“I was thinking ‘If I have kids will I be able to run and play with them?’” Montemayor said. “I was thinking ‘Am I going to be a whole man?’”
28 Responses for "Interview with Dr. Randall Wolcott, bacterial biofilm wound specialist"
Amputations are such a life changing process to say the least. What are some of the observations of similarities and differences between intraphagocytic biofilms and external as have been discussed above?
Hi Greg,
That’s a good question although I’m not sure of the answer yet. I am leaving for Sweden tomorrow to attend the Days of Molecular Modeling Conference so I won’t be able to finish my research on biofilm bacteria until I get back.
While I may find some answers to your question at that point, my guess is that there is no definitive answer to your question. Very little research relatively speaking has been done on biofilms in the human body. But from what I’ve read so far, it seems like they have very similar characteristics to those that develop externally.
The articles I have read so far don’t really distinguish much between biofilms found externally and those that develop inside the body. They just describe the characteristics of biofilms in general. So I think that both internal and external biofilms possess many of the same properties.
For example, as I told Dr. Wolcott, I’m pretty sure that if his patients were to do the MP for a long enough time and target the biofilm bacteria driving the actual disease process of diabetes, they would never end up with biofilm covered wounds in the first place. I think pulsed, low-dose bacteriostatic antibiotics would have a pretty good chance of targeting both internal and external biofilms.
It seems that so far, research on biofilms has focused more on external biofilms - those that clog up pipes or are found in nature where they are clearly visible to the human eye. In these cases the research has been done by large companies that have some sort of biofilm problem that affects their product or service and so they invest in order to figure out a way to get rid of them. It’s sort of like the presentation Dr. Wolcott mentioned where Proctor and Gamble had invested millions to clear biofilms from toilets.
Dr. Wolcott scrapes off his patients’ wound biofilms which obviously cannot be done inside the body. I am intrigued by the fact that he uses xylitol. Xylitol is actually a sweetener and is the number one ingredient in the sugar free pudding that I eat quite a bit. But I certainly don’t notice any rise in immunopathology when I eat those puddings.
Anyway, that’s my take for now.
Best,
Amy
Hi Amy,
Terrylmcc form the MP here. Fabulous work with Dr. Wolcott. I thought your interview was amazing. And we are heading in the right direction. One doctor at a time, if thats what it takes. We will get there, I can’t wait for people to stop arguing with me about what I’m doing. So many people can’t even grasp that I’m not ingesting vitamin D. So i find myself not saying much about the MP anymore, it’s just exhausting. I’m sure you know all too well yourself.
Thanks for all your hard work, and terrific enthusiasm. Fondly Terry
Thanks Terry,
I’m so glad you enjoyed reading the interview. Dr. Wolcott was very well spoken and I got the impression he is just as driven as Dr. Marshall. There is such a desperate need for the mainstream medical community to realize how many diseases are caused by bacteria.
It is sometimes very hard to explain the MP to certain friends and family members. But for the most part, I find that my confidence in the treatment makes them think Dr. Marshall must be on to something. But I do very much look forward to the day when the mainstream medical world starts to give Dr. Marshall and Dr. Wolcott and other pioneers full credit for their work. Then I can tell people, “see, I knew it all along!”
Best,
Amy
I sent the link to this study to the office of my congressional representative, health aide. All might consider that tactic as well. The discussion topics and answers by Dr Wolcott describe process issues of great importance to legislative action that has in the past defaulted to static (and often errant) consensus.
Without the ability to change static-driven consensus from the top down (laws of a nation that govern regulatory action… or often the case, inappropriate action and look-the-other-way inaction), then we can expect more of the same kind of slow motion acceptance processes for innovative thinking that saves lives and improves quality of life.
Wars worth fighting rarely make front page news, what is often seen are big distractions. Keep up the right fight Amy.–Janet
The following comment on biofilm growth rate allarmed me. The MP and others have often said that L-form bacteria are very slow growing:
When wound biofilms start to form, they do so very quickly. Sometimes, they can even be detected after 20 minutes of growth. In other words, bacteria begin to form biofilms as soon as possible.
Perhaps this is a distinction between actual bacteria growth and their colonization into biofilms after their “birth”.
Phil
Hi Phil,
Good point. It is often decades before Lform bacteria spread to the point where the patient begins to really note their presence and develops a Th1 disease.
But as described by Dr. Wolcott, biofilms can be created very quickly. One thing Dr. Wolcott did stress was the fact that if his patients weren’t immunocompromised, the biofilm bacteria on their wounds would never be able to spread at such an accelerated rate.
So it seems to me that Lform bacteria, which block the VDR and gradually disable the innate immune system in the process, put patients with Th1 disease in a state where biofilm bacteria can really take hold and proliferate with ease.
It’s possible that as you say, the bacteria that compose a biofilm may themselves grow rather slowly. But when the timing is right, when the patient’s immune system is down, they can quickly spread into biofilms along with other nearby species of bacteria. So even if they proliferate at a slow rate within the biofilm, their ability to join the bioflim community rapidly offers them yet another excellent survival mechanism. Clearly Lform bacteria are not just hiding inside the macrophages but inside biofilms and other cell types as well. Of course not every species in a biofilm has to be an Lform. Biofilms provide bacteria will cell walls a chance to form into persistent colonies that allow them to remain in the body for long periods of time rather then be eliminated quickly by the immune system.
I don’t think there has been a single study to look at the interactions between Lform and biofilm bacteria together. Such a study might shed light on how bacteria in very different forms faciliate each other’s growth. It would be wonderful (and I’m sure we will see this in the future) to see studies that examine bacterial behavior and how all these different types of pathogens interact.
After all, the pathognes that are making people with chronic disease ill are a tremendously large and diverse microbiota of pathogens. They have existed with man over millenia, but only in the past century have we started to fortify our food, use beta lactam antibiotics etc., conditions that have given them an optimal environment in which to survive. The exciting part about the MP and the research it should stimulate on persistent bacteria is that for millions of years the Th1 pathogens have evolved in so many different ways in order to control and use the human body to their advantage. Now, thanks to the MP we can finally control THEM, esentially reversing thousands of years of evolution in which they have devloped so many crafy survival mechanisms.
Best,
Amy
THANK YOU!!! I am so encouraged to have found this info…after 8+ years of being whipsawed by MDs and insurance companies in an exhausting search to find someone who could hear what I was saying about chronic inflammatory processes and debilitating symptoms. I have recently been diagnosed with sarcoidosis, hydronephrosis, and diverticulosis. In the past, I have also been treated for cervical spondylosis d/t declining the suggestion that I undergo major surgery and s/p hysterectomy adenomyosis and paracaratosis was reported on the follow reports.
Following a recent episode of resistant UTI, I started on cipro and was amazed that by the 3rd day, I felt better than I had in 5 years! As soon as I stopped taking the medication, I was right back to square one.
Also, my 24 yr. old dtr who has had psoriasis for ~ 6 years had a massive flare following the birt of her 1st chils about a year ago and then essentially immobilized by what is now being treated as psoriatic arthritis. She has been on weekly enbrel injections since Dec desoite the fact that her labs do not really indicate psa.
This isi just a brief thumbnail sketch of what we are trying to make sense of. In searching endlessly, I was so grateful to find the info re DR. MArshall’s work and am VERY interested to learn all that I can. I live in Western NY and my dtr is in Tucson, Az. Is there anyone inour area who we can contact. I have been a medical Social Worker for 30+ yrs and know that we have to be our own advocates. Please help in any way you can…WE ARE SO GRATEFUL and want to learn more.
Christine
Amy, I was interested to see the use of a sweetener to treat these wounds. I have successfully used table sugar held in a matrix of Betadine Gel to treat really sloppy, nasty wounds. I mix the two at a ratio of about 4 parts sugar to one part gel to get a consistency similar to runny peanut butter. Actually, you can use any gel, even petroleum jelly, as the active ingredient is the table sugar.
Using this, I have been able to get 50% healing each day, often without scarring.
Hi Steve,
That’s interesting that sugar allows you to treat wounds more effectively. I’m not sure I can explain why although I believe you, and I’m glad it works so effectively for you.
The xylitol Dr. Wolcott is using is a sweetener but it has very different properties from sugar. In fact it is a complete sugar substitute that has no structural resemblance (as a molecule) to sugar itself. So I’m not sure there is a great correlation between sugar and xylitol.
It would be interesting to look up some of the studies written by researchers using xylitol to treat external biofilms in order to see if they describe exact mechanisms by which they think the biofilm sucuubs to treatment with xylitol. As I continue to do research for an extended paper on biofilm bacteria I’ll be sure to investigate that issue.
One thing, as mentioned above, is that consuming xylitol doesn’t seem to have much effect on quelling biofilm infection inside the body. Those people on the MP who consume products sweetned with xylitol don’t seem to be experiencing a greater bacterial die off reaction then their counterparts who do not ingest the substance.
So xylitol may only work on biofilms under external circumstance although more research is definitly needed. Hopefully I’ll come across more data on exactly how xylitol disables biofilms and include it in my next piece.
Best,
Amy
Amy, this is a great interview, again.
I was wondering about something. L-form bacteria are not found by lightmicroscopy most of the time.
I would be interested to find out if the bacteria in the biofilms studied by dr Wolcott are identifiable by lightmicroscopy, or if they are too small and therefore actually belong in the realm of L-form / cell wall deficient bacteria.
It seems that if they are only identifiable by PCR, they also don’t show up on the standard lightmicroscopes.
Is this maybe a question for dr Wolcott? Perhaps he would be interested in other work done looking into L-form bacteria? Mattman, Livingston, Cantwell and others?
Best, Frans
Hi Frans,
I’m not sure if biofilms can be identified with the use of a light microscope. I believe that some of the pathogens that reside in biofilms are not necessarily cell wall less forms. So they might show up under a light microscope. Other smaller species may not.
I’ll be calling the Montana Center for Biofilm Engineering in the next week and will hopefully speak to someone who can describe what techniques are used to observe biofilms and the bacteria that reside inside them.
At the moment, there is definitely a great emphasis on chracterizing biofilms by using molecular technolony. Pretty much every study I have read on biofilms has not tried to sequence the pathogens inside a biofilm in a lab, but has instead used molecular techniques to sequence the bacterial DNA of the pathogens inside the biofilm. The researchers then compare the DNA sequences they obtain to big databases that have bacteria listed along with their characteristic DNA sequence.
So I’m not sure that any teams are actually trying idenfity biofilm bacteria simply by using a light microscope anymore.
I also think that many different species of bacteria can become part of a biofilm community. Some may be visible under a light microscope while others may be too small to visualize under such conditions. With 20, 30, 40 species in a biofilm, each one is distinctive and thus each would probably have to be removed from the biofilm and studied individually under a light microscope in order to be observed. Some might show up, others might not. I’m sure Lform bacteria are able to join biofilms and in such cases they would certainly not be able to identified with just a light microscope.
The best thing to do (and I will do this as I further research biofilms) would be to see how the scientists who are detecting them on toilets or in factory tubing, or in the mouth (dentists have accepted the existence of biofilms for quite some time) go about identifying biofilms and the bacteria inside them. Such researchers should know a lot about what kind of microscopes are needed to effectively analyze a biofilm.
Thanks for reminding me of another important aspect to research about biofilms as I do so in the coming weeks.
Best,
Amy
Christine,
Your story is very similar to many others. Amy has made a point to write Patient Interviews on her site along with great details about the science. She often encourages people to visit http://www.CureMyTh1.org to ask questions.
Getting well is really kind of fun after a while.
Best to you Christine–Janet
Hi Chrstine,
Sorry not to have answered your post more quickly. For the past week I’ve been in Sweden attending the days of Molecular Medicine conference where I gave a presentation on the MP science along with Dr. Marshall and MP nurse moderator Meg. We got a very postitive reception from many prominent scientists which was great.
Based on the descriptions you have written about your symptoms and those of your daughter, you are both definitely suffering from infection with difference species of L-form and biofilms bacteria. Be sure to read more about the pathogens on the aritlces on this site.
These pathogens are absolutely the cause of sarcoidosis and we have many patients in our phase II study that have recovered from the disease. As Janet said above, be sure to check out some of the patient interviews on this site. Also, I have many more to come. I literally have a list of sarcoidosis people to intervew reporting recovery. Psoriasis also responds extremely well to the MP so I highly encourage your daugther to start the MP as well.
By the way, my presentation here in Sweden involved the role of the Vitamin D Receptor in the endometrium and the effects of elevated 1,25D on the nuclear receptors, particularly during pregnancy. That might not make much sense to you now, but there is a longer article on this site that describes my presentation in greater detail. In the article I offer insight into why your daughter likely became more symptomatic after her pregnancy. That is a trend that is noted over and over again patients with chronic disease, and can largely be explained by the ability of Lform bacteria to proliferate during pregancy when a high level of 1,25D causes the patient to become increasingly immunosuppressed. I will also be putting up video footage of my presentation soon.
As Janet mentioned, you can post questions about how to find a doctor on http://www.curemyth1.org (maybe you already have). You can either switch to a new doctor that is working with MP patients or use the materials on this site and the MP study site to convince you current doctor to put you on the treatment.
If your current doctor won’t put you on the MP, I live in New York City and have an MP doctor. If you can travel to New York send me a private email at amy.proal@gmail.com and I’ll give you his contact information. If not, I’m confident you will be able to find another MP pysician that lives in your area.
I’m very excited by the prospect that both you and your daughter can get your full lives back thank to the MP. Good luck and I hope to see you on the study site in years to come!
Best,
Amy
Hi. Great article. I wonder if They have tried to treat diabetes foot with ozone applied directly to the wound, heard it is a great germ fighter for different types of open wounds.
Hi Wrotek,
I have no idea. Dr. Wolcott did tell me that they put patients’ wounds into a chamber filled with only oxygen. I don’t know if they have considered ozone. If I ever get a chance to speak with him again, I’ll ask his opinion on the subject. You could also send him an email asking his opinion about ozone.
Best,
Amy
Steve and Amy,
Just an FYI. Honey is also used for slow healing wound treatment. There is some interesting discussion here:
http://www.worldwidewounds.com/2001/november/Molan/honey-as-topical-agent.html
It makes a lot of sense that honey would have “evolved”, so to speak, to have some antibacterial qualities, considering how it is stored and used by the bees. It wouldn’t do the job if it acted as a growth medium!
Still, restoring a properly functioning VDR is going to be the key to keeping the formation of biofilms in check in the first place. Anything else is just slapping a band-aid on the problem.
Great article, Amy!
Hi Knochen,
Hmmm…very interesting. It’s true that honey would have to be somewhat sterile if a bee community were to survive. I’m not sure why plain old sugar would possess antibacterial properties, but who knows.
I should add that sugar, honey and xylitol may have the potential to improve external wounds, but consuming sugar or large amounts of honey will not help a person get rid of the bacteria inside their body. Once inside the body, we know that sugar can interfere with immune function and dysregulate blood sugar, so I just want to clarify that it should only be used externally.
Thanks for sharing your experience with honey. If I get the chance to speak with Dr. Wolcott again I’ll be sure to ask him more about sweeteners and wounds.
Amy
Knochen and Amy,
The use of sugar in its various forms as an anti-infective dates back to at least the time of the Pharohs in ancient Egypt. Instead of Betadine gel, they used lard as the matrix to hold the sugar.
As a young Hospital Corpsman in the Navy, I was asked by one of the GYN’s to go down to the galley and get some honey. I asked why and was told that there was an infected epesiotomy on the OB floor, and the honey was needed to treat the infection.
The sugar in the honey, and in the lard/Betadine gel/table sugar mix attacks the bacteria by acting as a drying agent, lysing the cell wall, and it also changes the pH of the environment, acting as a bacteriostatic. It also aids the growth of healthy tissue by acting as a direct source of “food,” stimulating tissue growth.
I was initially exposed to this information at the Occupational Health Clinic at Naval Station Norfolk, VA in January of 1983. I was shown the article in the Southern Medical Journal that had been published in late 1982. I just spent an hour looking through their archives and couldn’t find the notation, however. I got a headache from doing that, too. I suppose that the article is somewhat dated, but given that the technique had been in use since 3000 BC, it is not too dated.
As Dwight Eisenhower once said, “The more things change, the more they stay the same.”
Wow Steve,
That’s extremely interesting. Thanks so much for sharing! I’m so glad that you explained the mechanisms that allow sugar or honey to aid a wound. It’s very interesting that the sugar even acts as a source of food for the growing tissue.
I’m sorry you couldn’t find the article you were looking for but your experience in the Navy seemed to have confirmed the researchers were onto something and as you say, if something has been used for 3000 years it probably holds water.
Best,
Amy
Amy,
Thanks for the great interview. As a veterinarian, I’ve always been fascinated with wound healing, and this piques my interest more. I’m also aware of the slow moving, sometimes monolithic responses of the Western medical community in accepting new ideas. I will spread the word on this to my colleagues.
best regard,
Carl
Thanks for the info. I found the part about biofilms resulting leading to having tubes put into the ears particularly interesting. I had recurrent ear infections as a child and had the tubes put in and now suffer from the “autoimmune” disease ankylosing spondylitis. I’ve wondered for some time whether the two where somehow related and it seems to becoming clearer all the time. Just doing a quick google search on biofilm and ear infection came up with this story: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/07/060712075834.htm which talks about biofilms as a persistant infection…
NorCalJim
Hi Carl,
It’s true, change in the medical world is very slow, so I’m delighted to hear you will be passing on this info to colleagues.
Best,
Amy
[...] now that they have been correctly linked to biofilms, measures such as those described in this interview can be taken to stop the spread of infection and save the limb. Wolcott has finally been given a [...]
Amy,
You have engineered a superb website! I will spend hours digesting it. I have had over 30 years of experience working with Dimethyl sulfoxide (DMSO). It seems to me that DMSO could be used to great advantage in attacking biofilms. Has this application ever been tried?
Hi Doug,
Thanks! I’m so glad you plan to absorb as much material as you can from this site!
As for the DMSO, I assume you mean it would be helpful to treat external biofilms correct? I don’t know much about the substance, so you are better informed than me in terms of knowing if it can hinder biofilm development. I haven’t come across any mention of it in my reading concerning biofilms, but then again, I certainly haven’t read everything!
If you do think DMSO has the potential to curtail biofilm growth, perhaps you should contact Dr. Wolcott. I believe that someone at the Center for Biofilm Engineering at Montana State University could provide you with his email address or you could simply find it by searching online.
Best,
Amy
Amy,
I just found this website and apologize for my lack of reading through the whole site yet, but I wanted to comment. I’ve had some experience with biofilm with my diabetic husband.
Working with various enzymes like wobenzyme and serrapeptase on top of antibiotics and antifungals had a dramatic effect in an internal infection. In my first experiment, the internal infection just collapsed. He peed out this amazing sludge and never again needed to make many trips to the bathroom at night.
This was just a few years ago when there was very little information or interest in biofilm. I am so going to enjoy reading this website.
Reading through what little information there was, I found that there are many different structures of the biofilm itself, but that the right structure of enzyme will eat the film and expose the bacteria or fungus to the immune system or antibiotic. So it’s a one-two punch.
If I were a microbiologist, I’d be doing experiments with different enzymes, different combinations of enzymes on samples of biofilm.
We’ve also done well using ozonated olive oil on small external wounds.
Linda
Hi Linda,
Well, you’re certainly thinking in the right direction based on the fact that you believe your husband’s symptoms are the result of infection.
It’s very interesting that your husband seemed to benefit from ingesting enzymes. Did the administration of the enzymes cause an increase in his level of immunopathology (bacterial die-off reaction? I say so because we have found that the death of bacteria is accompanied by a rise in symptoms rather than a feeling of immediate relief.
Recently I did a good amount of research into biofilms and did not stumble upon the research of too many teams using enzymes as a means to destroy biofilms. Still, it seems like a viable option, and like any other potentially plausible hypothesis should be pursued.
You may want to contact the Center for Biofilm Engineering at Montana State University (essentially the hub of biofilm research here in the US) and ask them about any biofilm research pertaining to enzymes. Perhaps they could put you in touch with any researchers considering such an approach.
Best,
Amy
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