Thanks for your comment. During earlier periods of the MP I had a lot of plaque buildup (and tartar). I also saw it as a good thing. It’s pretty much established that bacteria in the mouth are mostly in a biofilm state, so if they were dying off (plaque is considered to be dead bacteria) then I figured biofilm related to other symptoms were likely being targeted as well.

But it would always puzzle my dentist that even though I would have all this plaque and tartar I never had any cavities. I have not had a single cavity since starting the MP. So it seems like the bacteria are really stymied.

My Mom’s had dental problems for years and now she’s been on the MP for a while. Her dentist just can’t believe how much better her gum/teeth have become. He hasn’t had to do a single filling or treat a single cavity. He told her he is amazed. My Mom really regrets not starting the MP earlier considering the sum she’s spent on dental bills!

I would not consider being on mino and benicar alone to be anything near to failure on the MP. As I’ve discussed with Trevor, the real variable in recovery on the MP is the strength of any one person’s immune response, not the antibiotics they can tolerate. Some people who have less VDR blockage can tolerate less abx because their immune response is stronger – that’s not a bad thing, but a good thing! In fact, over my time on the MP I gradually lowered my abx as my immune response became more powerful. As long as you are moving ahead and on Benicar I feel you are still making substantial progress.

Best,
Amy

I am in agreement with you about plaque being related to die off. I think I was ready to buy the farm when I started the MP and for the longest time, I had to scrape plaque off of my teeth three times a day. I had a difficult time controlling my IP. After three years, I have yet to make it to Phase 2 because my IP is too strong (though I did Mod Phase 2 for over seven months), and am back on Mino.

Still, I scrap plaque off my teeth at least once a week and if my IP strikes, I might do it every day for several days. There’s no way I could wait to go to the dentist even if I went every two months for a cleaning.

I find that the creation of plaque is a good indicator for me–I know I am killing CWD. I also know at some point this will start to slow down even more as I get better. Perhaps by then I’ll be able to start Phase 2.

Thanks for the article.

No problem. I’m glad you find the site informative!

I don’t know which, if either, of your hypotheses are correct either. Some say H2O2 has antimicrobial activitity but I did many H202 IV’s before starting the MP and they really had no effect. That being said, it could be different in the mouth or different in other people. If you are right that the H202 worked than perhaps toothpaste companies should consider the possibility!

But, as you mention, there’s a high chance that the pathogen load is you mouth has just gotten so high that you immune system isn’t really able to attack it anymore.

I guess the best way to figure out what’s going on would be to try the MP and see what the immunopathology is like in your mouth. So I hope you do start the MP!

Best,

Amy

I used to be plagued with plaque, cavities and gingivitis. When I became too chemically sensitive/allergic to use toothpaste, I had to switch to baking soda and/or hydrogen peroxide. No more plaque, cavities or inflammation for the last 15 years. I think the H202 oxidizes and kills the bacteria and the soda changes the pH making the environment unfriendly to them.
Of course an alternate hypothesis could be that the pathogens which crashed my immune system are living in my mouth, competing with the plaque bacteria and winning.

Thanks for your efforts and this site.

Ann

Thanks for sharing your story! I believe your thinking is right on. Anyone familiar with the MP understands that once on the treatment, symptoms flare before they get better. In your case, since you are still between Phase II and III, you are at a stage in the MP where you are likely killing quite a bit of bacteria.

Before you started the MP you say you didn’t have plaque. That makes sense because in people with Lyme and other chronic inflammatory illnesses caused by bacteria, many of the bacteria involved in the disease process create ligands that slow receptors that control immune system function. This allows them to gradually “shut down” the immune system over time. As people become more immunosuppressed some mistakenly think they are getting better, but what is really going on is that the battle between the immune system and bacteria can no longer take place because the immune system is so shot. So people enter a state that I envision as something like kudzu vine slowly growing over a field. The vines don’t cause too many symptoms, but the body just become bacterial reservoirs. In your case, plaque would not form under these conditions because plaque is likely made up of not just bacteria, but substances released when they are being killed – debri, toxins etc.

One you started the MP you jump-started your immune system with Benicar and began to kill the bacteria causing immune system dysregulation. This allowed a battle in your mouth to resume again. At this point, you had probably accumulated quite a load of salivary bacteria. As they died, I assume the products of bacterial death actually began to form part of what becomes plaque and such plaque formation serves as proof that you are really targeting bacteria.

I believe that as you continue to target bacteria in your mouth with the MP meds, eventually you will reach a state where your teeth become shiny and clean again. At that point the clean teeth will be the result of a reduced bacterial load in your mouth. Then the absence of plaque will be a good thing.

So that’s my take. I think you certainly have the right attitude in assuming that the appearance of plaque while you are in the middle of the MP is a positive sign of your rejuvenated immune response.

Take care,

Amy

Take care,
Shari

Glad that like “Mom” you seriously impressed your dentist! I would say the antibiotics definitely play a role in fully targeting the spectrum of bacteria in the mouth. Because they weaken bacterial ribosomes, they will cause a greater die-off than Benicar alone. It’s really important that especially at the beginning of the MP Benicar is taken along with the antibiotics.

But I happen to know you and your case is a bit different. You’ve been on the MP for several years. We suspect that many of the Th1 pathogens dysregulate the immune response by creating ligands that disable the VDR. I bet you have killed a good share of those pathogens meaning that your VDR and immune response is working quite powerfully again, especially since it’s still being activated by Benicar. In fact, the strength of your natural immune response may be what has caused you to need a break from the MP as you are probably targeting more bacteria on a daily basis then you ever were at the start of the MP, and possibly large colonies all at once.

Under these circumstances, I think you are making plenty of progress on Benicar alone. I would suspect that the immune system in your mouth and elsewhere is still doing a pretty good job of keeping pathogens under control and I wouldn’t expect any major decay. Of course if will be great when you are able to resume the antibiotics but I still think you are making progress on Benicar alone.

NOTE: I say this to Ken only because he has been on the MP for several years and I know his case history. I am not implying that it’s OK for other patients do use only Benicar when doing the MP.

Best,

Amy

My dentist was amazed when he saw the reversal of periodontal disease and the cessation of tooth decay in my mouth while I was taking the phase II MP antibiotics. He’s never seen this happen before in his patients. However, since then, to keep the symptoms under control, I’ve stopped the antibiotics and some tooth decay has occurred. Of course, I’m still taking Benicar and intend to resume the antibiotics when the symptoms become more tolerable.